******************************Moderator Comment**************************************** David you are bringing private moderator discussions on this public TT site-I realize you are attempting to control lies and your reputation for the good of this site-but you are violating the same rule others were reprimanded for. It would not be fair to others if I allowed this to continue- If you bring private discussions on this list again-in a reasonable amount of time- I will have no choice but to suspend you for three days-and reinstate you per your agreement to comply to the rules.It is my Job to protect others on this list from this type of discussion. I suggest you e-mail the members on this list privately for this type of iniquity. Thanks Carroll Moore-Moderator
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: TruthTalk <[email protected]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2/21/2006 8:16:50 PM > Subject: [TruthTalk] Truth & Gossip > > Lance quotes Debbie: > > a false rumour has the power to destroy a person. > > Considering the truthfulness of this statement, I would like to clarify some > things because it has come to my attention that John is engaging others on > this forum in gossip about me. John tells me that he will not courtesy copy > me on any of these communications about me. His grapevine involves at least > four other TruthTalk members. I cannot force him not to gossip, nor can I > force anyone to turn away their ear from hearing gossip and falsehoods, but > when I know of it occurring, I can shine a light upon it and urge you all to > turn away from listening to gossip about others. > > John and I have had some private exchanges wherein he has clarified a number > of things concerning his attitude toward me. > > 1. He believes that I am a false prophet. > 2. He believes that I am a fraud and that I am addicted to fraud. > 3. He believes that I am addicted to arrogance. > 4. He believes that I am addicted to deceit. > 5. He believes that I am addicted to the false witness of the beliefs of > others. > 6. He believes that I am a backstabber, and that I have backstabbed him. > 7. He believes that I am allowing a lie to rule the day. > 8. He believes that a good amount of my life is a lie. > 9. He believes that I claimed to "be a Ph.D." and that I tried to make > others believe that I had a Ph.D. > 10. He claims that there are four other TruthTalk members who believe that > I pretended to have a Ph.D. > 11. He believes that I claimed to be an apostle. > 12. He believes that it was his persistent questioning that exposed these > falsehoods of a Ph.D. degree and apostolic function that I was supposedly > trying to convince everyone else to be true about me. > 13. He believes that I have set myself up as a judge. > 14. He believes that I speak ONLY from personal bias. > 15. He believes that there is scarcely a single post addressed to him from > me that does not have something personal and insulting. > 16. He believes that I have made false claims about successes as a street > preacher. > 17. He believes Dean has elevated the moderator position to that of judge > and jury. > 18. He believes Dean is a coward. > 19. He believes Dean hides behind the testimony of confused and weak women. > 20. He believes that Dean is no different than southern hicks who hung > blacks, burned churches, and killed those who opposed their ignorance. > 21. He believes that Dean lacks integrity. > 22. He believes that Dean and Judy are lying about him asking for her > Pastor's name in order to get his opinion on her teachings. > 23 He tells me that SEVERAL on TruthTalk have told him that I am a scary > fellow. > 24. He believes that he was expelled for a lie. > 25. He believes that my questions about his leadership role and my interest > in talking with those in leadership with him constituted a threat. > 26. He believes that I had the notion of vengeful activity toward him. > 27. He believes that I wanted to expose him to his pastor, but what I was > going to expose is not stated. > 28. He believes that I wanted to speak evil about him. > 29. He has no reason to believe anything I say. > 30. He believes that I am profoundly ignorant. > 31. He believes that there was nothing ad hominem in his treatment of me. > 32. He believes that he knows the real reason he was expelled and it is not > the reason that I think it was. > 33. He makes it clear to me that I am not his friend. > 34. He believes that I am a cultist without a cult. > 35. He believes that my evil is profound. > > Very clearly, communication between us has completely broken down. These > recent disclosures have caused a total lack of trust on my part toward John. > It disturbs me that others on TruthTalk are engaging in gossip with him. I > consider gossip a sin, and I urge anyone who is engaging in it and allowing > their minds to be soured by this man to reconsider what they are doing. > > John has said that several of you think I am a scary person because I asked > John which of the Foursquare pastors in his community he was working with. > I want to clarify some facts about this right now. > > When John said his leadership role was pastor, and he gave me his city, I > looked up on the Foursquare directory the church there. Instead of John > Smithson listed there, it was another man. John had said in the past that > his church was large, so I assumed that perhaps he was an associate pastor > or assistant pastor. This led to me writing and asking John about it. This > post follows: > > =============================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > John wrote: > >>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > David wrote: > >> What is your leadership position > >> in your local church? > > John wrote: > > Pastor. I am one no matter where I > > attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > > to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > > California? > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little > perplexing. > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > leadership role in the church? > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > David Miller. > =============================== > > The next post indicated my consideration of calling the pastor. The phone > number was listed there right next to his pastor's name, so the temptation > to call was pretty strong. I could have had some answers right away, but I > did not call because I was not sure how John would feel about me > interjecting myself into his personal life. Seeing how things played out, > that was a wise decision, not to call. > > =============================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:40 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > JD wrote: > > It's just surprising to realize that David took > > time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and > > software sales to research as much as posible > > his old buddy, John Smithson. > > LOL. John, I did not research "as much as possible" or I would have made > phone calls and found out a whole lot more. Then I would have REALLY > dazzled somebody. As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a > few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church. > I'm just not sure if that is your actual church. I was not real comfortable > calling him without talking to you first. I was not sure how you would feel > about that. Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area? > You were the one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position, > hence my curiosity. > > David Miller. > =============================== > > Now some of you, according to John, see something sinister in my > consideration of calling the pastor of the church I had understood was > John's home church where he was in leadership as a pastor. Later I have > learned that John no longer attends this church. Now he attends a Baptist > church. At the time, however, I only remember John representing himself as > a Pentecostal attending a Foursquare church. Now he represents himself as > being in leadership as a pastor. Was John being humble in the past and not > advertising his leadership role? I didn't know, but I was curious. You can > read whatever you want into it, but I was simply interested in talking with > fellow leaders so I could understand the leadership perspective from which > John says he was speaking to me. I see it no different than if John were > staring at my pastor's name and phone number and called him to learn about > the leadership role I am in here in my community. Right now, I am still > very unclear of John's leadership role. He still claims to be a leader, but > a leader of what? His own house? That's fine, but if that is what he means > by speaking from leadership, I would like to know that. Such is a little > different than a man who is leading from the position of being a pastor over > a large congregation. > > I encourage any of you who think there was something scary or evil in my > motivations to please read these emails again and consider that such was > never a part of my perspective. It is very difficult for me to see how any > of you would perceive anything inappropriate with my posts. > > Now concerning John's suspension, I want to point out a few things. > > 1. Dean is the moderator and he is the sole person with the authority to > remove people from the list, if he deems such necessary. We do not make > joint decisions about this. Obviously, if I were to see something > inappropriate on Dean's part, I would step in to correct it. I think Dean > would welcome such too. However, as long as he is acting in accordance to > righteousness and holiness, I keep my hands off of the matter. In regards > to John's suspension, this was completely Dean's decision. > > 2. From my understanding of this matter, John was suspended for ad hominem > style posts that he would not apologize for. For example, he sent the > following post about me: > > =============================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [email protected] ; [email protected] > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:25 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See David Miller > towering over a rather humble looking John Smithson. David's eyes are > narrow and his rather bushy eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A > smile is on his face, one which some would confuse with a snear. His hands > are behind his back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with the > fresh blood of a previous opponent as he speaks these words: > > > "If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your > church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you > were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some > other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying > to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks." > > Get the picture? > > jd > =============================== > > Such hardly contributes to our discussion. He falsely characterizes me as a > murderer, acting out of deception and hatred toward him. Such deters from > profitable discussion. John denies that this post is ad hominem. Dean > mentioned a hypocrisy in John asking Judy about her Pastor and BSF yet going > ballistic over me doing something similar with him. Now John is > representing to others that he was suspended for posts done before his > previous suspension, posts that two witnesses (Dean and Judy) claim he did > but which he claims he did not do. He thinks such is unjust because those > posts have not been produced. The problem with his reasoning here is that > these posts of the past are not why he was suspended. They only point out a > hypocrisy, urging him to reconsider and apologize for behavior like that > illustrated in the post that I just quoted above. If he wants a post that > warrants suspension, it is this one above that illustrates the kind of post > that detracts from useful discussion concerning issues rather than other > TruthTalk members. > > I have been very patient with John and am more than willing to engage him in > discussion of this issue or other issues. He refuses to include me in his > dialogue with others where he talks about me. I think that is wrong. He is > a pastoral counselor and should know better than this. > > I'm sorry for the long post, but I wanted to clarify this matter and urge > others not to engage in behind-my-back style gossip. John has made it clear > that I am not his friend, and the way he views me is such that if I believed > his testimony about me, I would not consider myself to be in Christ. If > John wants back on this list, all he has to do is write Dean and humble > himself and agree to the order that Dean is enforcing for the list. If he > does not want to participate on this list, he can go elsewhere. There are > lots of discussion lists. If he wants to gossip and turn people against me > and Dean, that is an evil work, and nobody, whether Christian or > non-Christian, should engage in that. > > David Miller. > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
