Re: [TruthTalk] Psychology versus anything pastoral

[Judy Taylor]

 

 

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:58:34 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

In my opinion, it is not "pastoral" if it is secular  --  they are mutually exclusive ideas.   That does not mean there is no value in the secular.   I fully believe in the good work of research in this field  (pyschology),   There is much that we humans have in common  --  

 

Such as our fallenness because of the first Adam?

 

but the reactions to any number of variables creates the demand we be viewed as unique.   Generally speaking, there are five models in present day pyschology:  psychophysiological, psychdynamic  (Freud),  behavorial  (Watson), cognitive (Simon), and humanistic (Rollo mays, Rogers and Maslow) .... There are , in fact, over 200 expressions of or models of psychology  --  many of them competing views.  

 

Which is it - five or over two hundred models of psychology?  Whichever, it can't compete with the confusion

of the supposedly sacred.  The World Christian Database Denomination list shows there are 9,000 Christian denominations in the world and 635 of them in the USA and many of these are also competing views.

 

Note that anything "divine" is not included. A course study on the foundational aspects of modern day psychology will not include reference to anything divine or pastoral.   In fact, a number of models view "pastoral" or "divine" as problematic and to be avoided. 

 

I am not taking a stand for psychology per se but there are many believers who have a degree in sociology and who counsel in a secular setting.

 

It is modern day psychology that has challenged religion and not the converse   ---   simple minded fundamentalist attacks aside.

 

The above is an unnecessary slam JD and it is unloving. Just because one is willing to take God at His Word does not make them "simple minded" or put them in a "fundamentalist" file.

 

I believe that where therapy does not involve pharmacology, it should be be pastoral in content.   I also believe that much of what we call "mental illness" is not illness at all, rather the normal workings of the mind when it comes under catastrophic stress. 

 

Yes a mind that is full of fear and devoid of faith - but this is a spiritual issue.  That person is like a city with broken down walls so that anything and everything comes and goes.

 

I believe that thoughts are not the only things that account for psychological response  -

 

Maybe not but isn't this where the problem becomes apparent?  Do you give your counselees scriptural advice

and tell them it is possible to take their thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ?

 

the other consideration is that of relationships.   And that is where "religion" comes into the picture. Because of my belief in the above  --  this business of community is  important because it has to do with our mental state  -  our very person.    

 

How so JD?  Our very person is not a brain or even a mind.  We are triune beings as originally created in God's image but God is One, He is not a "community"

 

In fact,  the content of "relating" is more important when the two considerations are compared.  Man is fully formed as he is embrassed by the community  (family, husband-wife,  clubs, sport teams and , yes, churches.)   Most cases of extreme "mental illness" have a commonality  --  isolation from surrounding relationships   --  especially isolation from demonstrable expressions of a truine (or pluristic) God. 

 

Now what is the above all about?  Never heard of it before and I certainly don't see it in God's Word. There is the

principle of iron sharpening iron yes, but this is not the only way - God taught Moses, David, and Paul His ways in solitary places.

 

If that is true,  then pastoral counseling is critical and every saint should be a pastor.   Knowing that when we capture God, He consumes us , the pastoral "counselor" that is worth her salt is one who understands the difference between the knowledge of human actions and the love that can command those actions and find sense in that which is nonsensical.  jd

 

How does one do this?  I understood victory to be when we allow God to transform us - what example do you have of one who "captured Him?"  How does love command human actions in your opinion JD?

 

From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

How IYO does the "pastoral counseling" that you offer differ from the secular kind and what kind of problems

are you confronted with JD?  judyt

 

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:44:46 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yes ,  I charge for the sessions  --------------    $45  for an hour and 20 minutes.    I try to work myself out of a job within 6 sessions but will "coach"  (read:disciple) them afterwards.    I used to offer the help for no charge   --  no one took me serious until they were vested in the program.   If they run out of money during the sessions , they are continued with no further charge.   In almost every case where this has been necessary,  the clients cintinue to be quite involved.

 

Regarding Joanna's efforts   --  I think  if you review her comments, you will see that she is clearly doing the lord's work as she continues with these who are hurting. 

 

I have quite a prepared rant concerning secular counseling   --  but I tend to keep that to myself.   I am a pastoral counselor, not a healthcare provider.   The rules are different for me than for others and I work within that framing.  If my counseling conflicts with any received by the client,   I cancel the sessions until the client is finished with her provider. .......   too confusing for the subject. 

 

jd