Lance, part of our difficulty in communicating on this is our definition
of
"believer." I think you have discerned in the past that I use the term
Christian in a broad sense of those who claim Christianity as their
religion. We would be in agreement in regards to Christians having widely
different interpretations about Gen. 1-11. On the other hand, the term
"believer" for me takes on a more narrow meaning in the sense of someone
who
actually trusts in Jesus Christ. The term "believer" for me actually
includes non-Christians, but among the Christians included, it is such a
small group who are actually believers that the word is much more narrow
than the term Christian. I think that believers actually do see Gen 1-11
in
a very similar way in regards to knowledge they have confidence about,
that
is, in regards to the actual message of God being conveyed in the text.
Some believers have more knowledge than others in regards to the subject
matter in Genesis, so what they actually say will vary, but there are not
sharp disagreements among believers in these matters. For example, if I
were to share my knowledge of Creation, or the Nephilim, or the Noachide
flood, etc., while my knowledge might be greater than many believers in
many
of these areas, I expect a lot of hearty amens as opposed to suspicion and
disagreement.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11
Other than the possible uniform affirmation that God in Christ (see
Colossians) is the 'commencer', I suspect that the views of most informed
believers would vary greatly on Gen 1-11. Why wouldn't they?
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 18, 2006 07:48
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Physics, Astronomy and Genesis chapters 1-11
More than one observation: There are plenty of reasons for believing that
"day" in the creation account does not mean a 24 hour period. First ,
the
Hebrew word itself is not limited in definition to this meaning.
Secondly,
Adam and Eve did not die in the "day" they transgressed unless, of course,
you believe that "day" is more than a 24 hour period of time. Further,
in
Gen 2:4 "day" is a summary of all that was created...... not a 24 hour
period. Thirdly, very little in the creation account was completed
on the "day" it was begun. The events of Day One are extended into Day
Four. Day Two is extended into Day Three (re the waters of firmament),
if
rain or heavy mist does not occur until or at the time of Adam's creation
(which 2:4-7 might suggest), then Day Three extends into Day Six and we
are
not concerned about plant life before the creation of the sun because it
did
not begin to grow until the sixth day. Thus, there is biblical argument
for believing that creation was a series of events that played out over a
period of time and extended into other creation events.
If "day" is a 24 hour period, how long does it really take for God to say
"Let there be light." That expressed time (elapsed time in creation) is
anything other than a metaphorical expression is unlikely and for all the
reasons stated.
Bishop J
-------------- Original message --------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When I say that I'm not a strict creationist, I'm refering to the
idea that
the universe, the earth, and everything living on it were created
roughly 10000
years ago. Certainly I'm a creationist in the sense that I believe that
God
created the universe, there's no other way it could have come to be.
Also,
you are completely right:
David:
> I think your attitude of waiting for a third
> option is simply that gnawing feeling that something is amiss with the
> purely scientific explanation of natural laws and evolution explaining
> it
> all.
That is precisely why I am waiting for a third option. I believe that a
purely scientific explanation of natural laws and evolution can't explain
life
getting here. I t hink there is a lot of necessary evidence missing for
evolution, but that evolution is accepted because the only other
possibility,
God, is ruled out in advance (by scientists). However, I also believe
that the
universe, the earth, and (possibly) life have been around for a very
long time.
Quoting David Miller :
> Conor wrote:
>> Personally, I'm not convinced that the seven
>> days of creation are meant to be taken literally.
>
> I tend to think they are to be taken literally, primarily because of
> the
> emphasis on evening and morning, but also because the first creation
> account
> appears to be an empirical, chronological style description in
> comparison to
> the second creation account.
>
> Conor wrote:
>> Ironically though, I'm not a strict evolutionist,
>> or a strict creationist. I'm s till waiting for a third
>> option, which seems to be slow in coming.
>
> If you believe that God created the heavens and the earth, then you are
> a
> creationist. How he did that becomes secondary. For a pure scientist,
> God
> did not create. The scientist has no creationist option at all.
> Evolution
> is the only option.
>
> Creationist models can incorporate evolutionary components, and should,
> but
> scientifically oriented evolutionary models cannot and do not
> incorporate
> any creationist components. I think your attitude of waiting for a
> third
> option is simply that gnawing feeling that something is amiss with the
> purely scientific explanation of natural laws and evolution explaining
> it
> all.
>
> My sense is that the earth and universe is old, but life on earth is of
> relatively recent origin.
>
> David Mille r
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