on 8/4/2000 9:55 AM, "Diethelm Guallar, Gonzalo"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been taking a look at the projects hosted at
> tigris.rog. In particular, Scarab looks like a good
> example of the use of Turbine, WebMacro, Peer, etc.
>
> Then I found Joist, described as a Java-based framework
> for web-based apps. It looks like it has similar goals
> as Turbine (it even uses WebMacro). Any opinions, hints,
> comparisons or comments regarding how Joist and Turbine
> compare? Thanks,
Joist has a story similar to Turbine. It was originally developed by Dan and
David Pellegrini (twin brothers) who are friends of mine for about 3 years
now. They worked with me a long time ago on building a framework for
ascend.com called StyleWeb. The framework was pretty cool, but eventually
outgrew itself when we learned that the road we had taken was not entirely
clear. We learned a lot from it though. After that, they went to go work for
Collab.Net and developed Joist and I continued at Clear Ink to work on my
framework (Dash) which was the pre-cursor to Turbine.
Anyway, both frameworks got developed at the same time, but Joist was done
under huge time pressures and in a closed environment and Turbine was done
in the open under no time pressures. If you look closely at Joist, there is
some stuff in there that is very similar to Turbine and also the other way
around. That shows that we all learned from our initial experience. The
problem with the huge time pressures on Joist made for some design decisions
that were good, but not entirely well thought out.
Joist is a good framework and has had a couple high profile sites built on
top of it (sourcexchange.com and tigris.org). While it is a good framework,
there are some things in it that are very questionable and not nearly as
generally open as with Turbine. One part that sticks out like a sore thumb
is the way that it is dependent on getServlet() which is a >2.0 deprecated
method. It is possible to fix that, but will be problematic because the way
it extends existing servlets. You would have to deal with init() and
destory() and by the time you do all that, you have already created your own
servlet engine. Turbine gets around all this by using the ModuleLoaders.
There is other stuff that bugs me about Joist, but I don't have the time to
go into details now and it really isn't worth it. I would much rather have
you form your own opinions on it after looking at the code in detail and
trying to play with it.
Now, the question of whether or not to use Joist or Turbine has been up in
the air since I started working at Collab.Net. I'm sure that my opinion is
perfectly clear, but the issue is migrating all the code from Joist to
Turbine will be a huge amount of work. So, the experiment with Turbine will
be Scarab. If Scarab is successful, then that will be a strong case to
switch things to Turbine. I'm very confident that Scarab will be successful.
thanks,
-jon
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