hi michael, first i'd like to thank you for letting us know what's going on and what will happen in the future. i'm happy to see moving forward.
i had some concerns regarding TurboGears however after i see you, alessandro, diez and chris having your heart in it made me believe that it's not going anywhere and you will improve it a lot. performance is the most important feature of a web framework. this will be the big one of the reasons people would use turbogears. maybe you will do this with refactoring some code maybe with removing some layers in a dispatch of a request. turbogears has some powers over all such as sprox and toscawidgets and this is why i have picked up for a small but urgent project of ours. maybe you guys know the contest "the voice" in the us and holland. i'm developing that now. currently only for applications for the show but it will be a huge cms later, it seems. also knowing that sourceforge.net is on turbogears was a relief to me. it would be awesome if we knew how mark and his team made sourceforge scale. the decision on moving on top of pyramid from pylons is a wise decision. pylons is no more so why rely on it or maintain it while we have already a huge one to maintain as pylons is huge as well. from what you've written i suppose orion is not going to happen. having turbogears and orion was not good at all as the community was going to split. there's no good in that. how can we make people use turbogears? 1) code side - making it perform way much better. - much more nice and clean docs and api docs. - docs should be clear as hell, not complicated, not too long. 2) marketing side - screencasts. screencasts are very important. - making it clear that turbogears can scale very well and it can be adopted for any kind of web application. - we should adapt it at our workplace and make our friends use it. - we should let people know about turbogears in our local python meet- ups. (i'm gonna do that next month.) - using reddit/hackernews for status updates, release informations, doc updates, new features. i'm making a commitment to make a screencast series for turbogears like mark and kevin did. i still enjoy kevin's wiki 20 screencast on showmedo. i will build up an application and record it. i'll bother you guys on both irc and the list with my questions. i also would like to get my feet wet with the code however i am not virile enough for that, yet. though i would like to close some tickets. On Jun 30, 5:23 am, Michael Pedersen <[email protected]> wrote: > We've been asked what the future holds for TurboGears. Specifically, we've > seen people wondering what happens when the current maintenance releases are > done. The super short answer is that we keep on developing, adding new > options, finding and fixing problems, and generally making web development > as easy and productive as possible. The longer answer? Well, that's what > this email is for. The one thing I don't want to see in response is somebody > saying "TL;DR", okay? :) > > First, version 2.2: We're working towards that release right now. We need to > revamp our documentation into a full book structure. That's in progress, but > it's going to take some time. I believe I might also look for an editor, and > that's going to cost some money (unless we have an editor on the list > willing to lend their time to making this better). It's worth it to me to do > so, though. > > In addition, we need to complete our testing coverage, and close out as many > bugs and feature requests on our tracker as possible. With each release, > we're re-evaluating every single open ticket. We're looking to find out if > we've already fixed it, or if we're pushing this particular one to the next > release. > > We've also initiated a monthly release process. The release will occur each > month on the first Wednesday on or after the 15th of the month. > > Basically, the plan is to make 2.2 into a platform so solid that it can > easily be used and relied upon for a long time to come. We are also taking > special care to avoid introducing incompatibilities or even deprecations. > Without a solid reason, the code written for 2.0 will be able to moved to > 2.2 with great ease and confidence in the results. > > Next, version 2.3: This release is focused on optimization. We are going to > establish baselines for performance (basically, how well we're doing at > 2.2), establish performance targets, and then optimize the hell out of the > code. 2.0 was acceptable speeds. 2.1 was noticeably better. 2.1.1 feels > noticeably (subjectively) better still. 2.2 Should be at least that good, > and 2.3 is going to produce unquestionably better speed results. > > We don't have those numbers yet, and we don't have our targets yet. I can > only say that we are going to turn up the speed for 2.3. > > Version 2.4: This release can be summarized as "extensions extensions > extensions". We're going to get several common components made available by > default. Right now, if a developer wants to make a site with a blog or two, > a CMS, a shopping cart, and then layer his application on top of this, all > of those component pieces must be developed first. > > For version 2.4, we're going to have those (and some others, too, we don't > have a comprehensive list as yet) where we standardize on them and > incorporate them into our standard release process. A developer will be able > to build a feature rich website in very short order. With those extensions, > we're going to pull TG out of being just a framework, and closer to being a > platform usable for building anything. > > Between now and 2.4, we are going to work to make TurboGears into a proper > abstraction layer. This means making sure that the lower level tools we use > don't bleed through. For instance, right now you might find a need to > reference something directly from Pylons (response headers, or the current > route, or anything else). We are looking to abstract away the details so > that our development community will be able to focus on working with > TurboGears, instead of needing to know Pylons, or Pyramid, or whatever else > may come up even further down the road. > > Beyond that, we're getting into the very murky future. Pylons has been > deprecated, so new releases of it will be very hard to make happen. At some > point, we will need to either adopt Pylons ourselves, or migrate to Pyramid > as our base, or even something else (we're not sure what that will be). We > need to consider adding Python 3 support. We need to evaluate dropping > Python 2.4 at some point (some of the packages in our private eggbasket are > behind the times because of needing to support Python 2.4, and the new > versions of those packages don't do it). We don't have a timeline for any of > that, not yet. We know it needs to happen, we just don't have a version or > date in mind for it. > > While we can't say what our plans are after TurboGears 2.4 (because we don't > know what they are), we can make a couple of commitments: Between now and > then, we're going to work more closely with the Pyramid team: they do > excellent work, and it would be foolish to ignore what they offer. We're > going to make regular releases a priority. We're going to continue to > support our older releases (the TG1.5 line is getting ready for a release in > the near future). We're going to produce an ever improving platform for the > Python web development community to use. > > And, personally, I'm in this for the long haul. I'm seeking new work, and I > might very well have killed a good chance at a job because of my desire to > keep working on TurboGears. I'm okay with that. I want TurboGears to > succeed, and I'm willing to make that kind of sacrifice if it will help. > > I don't ask others to do the same. I do ask that you offer up what you can. > Even if all you can offer is questions, that's still enough. It gives me > hope that, together, we *can* make TurboGears succeed in the long term. And > that's what I want most. > > -- > Michael J. Pedersen > My IM IDs: Jabber/[email protected], AIM/pedermj022171 > Yahoo/pedermj2002, MSN/[email protected] > My LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljpedersen > Twitter: pedersentg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TurboGears" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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