Kingfisher is almost a code word though. . . Sent from TypeMail
On Jul 25, 2015, 8:57 AM, at 8:57 AM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:09 AM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >For the younger list members, there has been a long and heated >controversy >about "Amos and Andy" going back to its radio days in the 40s and 30s, >then >intensifying when it was brought to television. I remember as a kid >identifying A&A as the epitome of racist television, and then as a late >adolescent running into old black people who argued that A&A had been >one >of their favorite shows on radio and TV, and that it was one of the few >TV >shows that provided a platform for Black actors and comics. > >On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 11:02:26 AM UTC-7, Tom Wolper wrote: >> >> About Amos & Andy: it started as a radio show voiced by white actors >doing >>> dialect. When it went to TV, while it did provide acting >opportunities to >>> African American actors, it did not give them an opportunity for an >honest >>> portrayal, they could only play stereotyped caricatures of African >>> Americans and that is what the mostly white audience saw. >>> >> >On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:56 AM, 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV < >[email protected]> wrote: > >> I couldn't disagree more with the characterization of "Amos and >Andy." >> While it labored under the control of Correll and Gosden, as far as >the >> television version of the show goes, with the exception of Andy, >George >> Stevens, and Sapphire, the characters were hard-working intelligent >> professionals who were anything but stereotyped. It was one of the >few >> places audiences could see black lawyers, doctors, and business >owners who >> acted like real people and not like caricatures who mumbled and were >comic >> relief for white actors. >> >> Yeah, the show had problems, but stereotyping wasn't one of them. >> > >So, between them Tom and Dave do a pretty good job of illustrating the >range of debate I alluded to that has raged on about A&A since it >started >on television in the 1950s. I think there is merit in both positions, >though perhaps an in depth analysis of the program is beyond the scope >of >the current thread. But, note a couple of important things: > >1. When Dave says that "with the exception of Andy, George Stevens, and >Sapphire, the characters were... anything but stereotyped." this has to >be >understood in the context of the show. Andy of course is half of the >titular main cast of the program; Sapphire became the most powerful >embodiment of a deep and extremely limiting and damaging stereotype of >African-American women as loud, shrill, emasculating and unproductive, >and >the George Stevens he references is The Kingfish, the character and >stereotype that this thread turns on. The Kingfish was a lazy, >dishonest >conman - and in the television programs many of the episodes focused >more >on him than Amos and Andy. So Dave's statement is a little like saying: >"with the exception of Elyse, Mallory and Alex, the Keaton Family on >Family >Ties was an accurate portrayal of white middle class American families >in >the 1980s". Except of course none of the characters on Family Ties are >drawn in as harshly a caricatured manner as the main characters in A&A, >with none of the negative and damaging consequences. There were good >things >about Amos and Andy (both comically and socially); but it simply is not >true that stereotyping was not one of its problems. > >2. In the context of US TV in the 1950s and 1960s, A&A probably did >have a >net positive portrayal of African Americans. Most White Americans would >have only seen Blacks portrayed as various degrees of servants or >criminals >on television and most films, and A&A did include a range of >intelligent >and productive characters that, while common and well known to African >Americans, would probably have seemed exotic to most Whites. And a lot >of >talented Black actors and comics who otherwise would either not have >gotten >work, or only in more demeaning roles, supported themselves and their >families and had a career because of Amos and Andy. > >3. Regardless of the final evaluation of Amos and Andy (and whatever >that >winds up being, it would be complex and multi-faceted), there is no >doubt >that the voice associated with The Kingfish is today a stereotyped and >even >racist marker. It is similar to the Uncle Tom image; one might want to >argue that the original character in the novel is a counter-stereotype >used >to provide White people with positive images of African Americans. >Whatever the success of that argument in the context of the novel, >there is >no doubt that today, the "Uncle Tom" image and traits are viewed by >African >Americans as offensive. Indeed, the reason Stewart used a Kingfish >inflection in his Cain "impression" obviously was to be derogatory. > >4. So there really is no valid debate about this - The Kingfish voice >is a >negative and racist stereotype, and would be taken as such by anyone >who >recognized it. Stewart's defense (which, again, I agree with) is that >his >whole schtick involves taking an obvious and unfair stereotype about >public figures and absurdly exaggerating it to cut them down to size. >He >does this with Shumer and other Jewish personalities; he does this with >Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell, and so on; and he is irritated that >otherwise "liberal" social critics draw the line at him doing the same >thing with Black stereotypes. > >Where I am not critical of Stewart doing the bit, I am critical of him >pretending not to understand how edgy and dangerous it is, and the >inherent >differences between he as a Jewish comic lampooning Jewish stereotypes >and >he as a Jewish comic lampooning Black stereotypes. It is a bit like >white >people who like to pretend that a word like "WASP" or "Cracker" is >equal to >a word like "Nigger" in power and damage. I would defend a skilled >White >comic (which Stewart is) telling a well crafted joke that uses the word >"Nigger", and defend him against African-American critics who would >basically be arguing that only Black comics are allowed to use the word >in >a joke. But only a moron (which Stewart is not) would try to pretend >that >there was nothing particularly fraught or dangerous about a white comic >telling a Nigger joke, and this, on a smaller scale, is what Stewart >did. >What Stewart could, and maybe should have done is put his brilliant >comic >talents to the task of acknowledging these complexities, while still >asserting his right to make the joke. I think Cenac's real mistake was >in >not articulating this (which was his actual position) - apparently >because >in his mind Stewart he could not or would not actually get into it at >that >level. > >-- >-- >TV or Not TV .... 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