Along with about half of my Twitter feed. On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 4:24 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote:
> The comedian who did the Apu documentary sides with Marc Lamont Hill, > criticizes CNN. > LINK TO TWEET > <https://twitter.com/harikondabolu/status/1069348896986537986> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:12 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thanks for that. As I said, I’d never heard of the guy, but didn’t see >> what he said in an isolated speech as especially inflammatory. Now I know. >> >> On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 8:59 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> So, here is what I think you are missing: >>> 1. While saying he advocates and promotes non-violence, he rejected a >>> definition of this that excluded Palestinians using violence to resist >>> Israeli state violence. If all he meant by this was that when the Israeli >>> military sends soldiers or bombs to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip the >>> Palestinians should be allowed to fight back, it would be relatively >>> uncontroversial. But he clearly meant something different - that in his >>> view there were times when it was morally acceptable, perhaps imperative, >>> for the Palestinians to blow up city buses as a means of resisting Israeli >>> state violence. If you do not understand what is controversial about this >>> position, simply imagine that instead he was saying that there were times >>> when Palestinians would be justified in hijcking commercial airliners and >>> flying them into crowded US landmarks. The reaction in Israel is even >>> stronger, since they have been dealing with this longer and more frequently. >>> >>> 2. He used the phrase “from the river to the sea” - when he called for a >>> “free Palestine from the river to the sea.” This phrase is a term of art in >>> the Middle East, and a dog whistle that has a very specific meaning (I >>> guess it is not really a dog whistle, since in the context of the Middle >>> East everyone would know what it means, not just dogs. But in the US its >>> meaning is less clear). The River is the Jordan, and the Sea is the >>> Mediterranean. Right now the land between those two is mostly called the >>> state of Israel. WHen people call for a free Palestine to exist between the >>> River and the Sea, they are actually saying that the State of Israel has no >>> right to exist, and that it should be replaced by the State of Palestine. >>> Moreover, this phrase is associated with groups like Hamas, which not only >>> refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist, but are actively devoted >>> to using violence to eliminate it. Many, including the US, the EU and >>> Israel, regard Hamas as a terrorist organization. In using this phrase, >>> Hill is not campaigning for a Palestinian State, he is campaigning against >>> the existence of the State of Israel. These are two very different things. >>> >>> 3. Hill has been photographed socializing with Minister Louis Farrakhan, >>> and when criticized for it has pushed back hard, saying he will not allow >>> the media to dictate who he gets photographed with or socializes with. >>> Farrakhan, by any measure, is an anti-Semite and a racist. Hill’s >>> association with Farrakhan does not by itself justify banning him from CNN >>> of course, and there is a long list of Democratic figures (including anyone >>> who was at Aretha Franklin’s funeral) who are included among the many who >>> have been photographed with him. But Hill’s attitude about this provide >>> some of the context for making sense of his recent comments. >>> >>> In all of this Hill is like nothing so much as Donald Trump and his >>> enablers, who from one side of their mouth weakly endorse vague cliches >>> about not being racist, while from the bigger side of their mouth they >>> exuse, endorse and subtly repeat racist leaders, organizations and dog >>> whistles. If a Fox News Commentator said he was opposed to racist violence, >>> but then said he wa not going to be bullied into condemning people like >>> Dylann Roof for shooting all those people at Emanuel AFrican Methodist >>> Episcopal Church, because America is a white Christian nation that needs to >>> be defended, and then repeared racist code phraes and defended himself for >>> hanging out with David Duke, saying that while he disagreed with lynching, >>> he agreed with Duke about lots of other things, I think you would find lots >>> of reasonable Americans calling on Fox News to fire that Commentator >>> (though of course I know I am probably describing an actual Commentator at >>> FN who has not been fired). >>> >>> I agree that it is possible to harshly and criticize Israel and its >>> immoral, oppressive polices (like the settlements) especially under its >>> current government, without being anti-Semitic. I identify myself as such a >>> critic. I also agree that there are those Israelis and supporters who do >>> not seem to accept this. But I do think it is more likely that people who >>> advocate for the use of violent terrorism, the destruction of the state of >>> Israel, and defend Louis Farrakhan, can reasonably be described as >>> anti-Semitic. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 6:25 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I’d never even heard of the guy until this afternoon. Not sure what he >>>> does, and not sure why he was speaking at the UN. But once again, because >>>> Israel has no separation of church and state, it is assumed that those who >>>> speak against the Israeli government’s history of discrimination and abuse >>>> are therefore anti-semitic, so when he advocated violence as an option for >>>> the Palestinians, CNN sacked him. Let me be clear: I naturally assume he is >>>> as big a gasbag as every other CNN pundit, and there’s always a good reason >>>> to fire a gasbag pundit regardless of party affiliation. But I listened to >>>> his speech at the UN; it was bold, but he said nothing against Jews. >>>> Supposedly his words echoed rhetoric by those campaigning for a Palestinian >>>> state. OK, I don’t know that, but is that alone something to be fired over? >>>> What am I missing here? >>>> >>>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/29/media/marc-lamont-hill-cnn/index.html >>>> -- >>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Kevin M. (RPCV) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
