So this getting a little complex, and I should probably let David clarify to avoid even more. But I think David is saying that Jon Stewart’s position is that science relies on faith as much as religion. I don't think that David was agreeing with him.
I agree with you that one virtue of science, as opposed to religion, is that science is comfortable both with not knowing things and with discovering that what it once thought was so was wrong. But I dont think this is the part that is tripping up Stewart; it is more the ways in which mathematics, statistics and logic are employed by science to formulate conclusions that to lay people seems more like smoke and mirrors, or faith, than what they think of as evidence. This is the aspect that leads so many fundamentalists not to just misunderstand Evolution, but reject it in the most confidently bewildered and demeaning ways. I don't think Stewart rejects Evolution, but his tone of voice Monday reminded me of the many Christian Evolution deniers I have known. On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 at 4:46 PM Melissa P <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps I don't understand you, because I assume you know how science > works. > > Substitute "still unknown" or "still unproven" for "faith" and I'd be okay > with what you wrote. The beauty of science is what we don't know and hope > one day to find out. > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 11:22 PM 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> PGage's point reminded me of something I noted back when Stewart hosted >> The Daily Show. J-Stew interviewed author Marilynne Robinson in 2010 about >> one of her books. IMO, neither was particularly effective in articulating >> their points, but here's the interview: >> >> >> https://www.cc.com/video/87tj6r/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-marilynne-robinson >> >> Around 2:58 the conversation turns to what may still be Stewart's >> perspective, that at a certain level science seems to be relying on faith >> about as much as religion. He cites the inability to see antimatter as >> being comparable to arguments that God created everything. I don't know >> that it's exactly what PGage is driving at, but I think the way some >> appeals to scientific authority take shortcuts contributes to this >> skepticism of the reliability of scientific information. >> >> For what its worth, Stewart didn't strike me at the time as willing to do >> the work to check these claims, or maybe even in a position to know that >> can be done. I wrote about it here (as with any 11 year old internet >> thing, linkrot runs rampant in the post) - >> https://pascophronesis.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/failure-in-science-communication-jon-stewart/ >> >> David >> >> On Thursday, June 17, 2021, 7:40:59 PM PDT, PGage <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> Again, I really don’t think this was satire. I don’t think Stewart is an >> anti-science Trumper, but I think he is genuinely worried about the dangers >> he sees in science- driven elitism, and wants to set some other authority >> (humanism perhaps?) above science. This is not an uncommon position among >> certain kinds of liberals (e.g., those still losing sleep over genetically >> modified crops). >> >> What we needed was a transition from his comic bit (however successful or >> not it was) and at least a few minutes of serious discussion. >> >> On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 at 4:20 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> . >> >> >> As I watched the Stewart rant I thought his problem is he hasn't done >> standup in front of an audience for years and his performance was off. He >> wasn't clear about the point he was making - I think his point was if you >> say "trust the science" it doesn't mean trust only the science you agree >> with. As he built his rant his beats were off and as he got up and walked >> to the audience he didn't pause to see if the audience was still with him. >> If he spaced the buildup more it would have come out more like satire and >> less like a right wing talk radio rant. >> >> As for Carvey, he must be some kind of acquired taste. So many people I >> respect in comedy talk about what a genius he is and every time I watch an >> appearance I don't find him funny. >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CA%2B_fQPx9RFoe0at7fV%2Bp%2BZ53JsjHpT4VENB1SgNgtRYi7jHdVA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CA%2B_fQPx9RFoe0at7fV%2Bp%2BZ53JsjHpT4VENB1SgNgtRYi7jHdVA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK-aP1PuQL98rjGEAGf6UAGVME5a0rvZh%3DRdQLFgGYhzw%40mail.gmail.com.
