I respect your decision very much Adam. I think this is the third WC I have watched seriously, and I am still basically a tourist, without deep emotional ties to the game. I consider the NFL to be guilty of serious crimes and human rights abuses (perhaps not on the scale of Qatar) and have not been able to stop myself from following a season or Super Bowl, in large part due to childhood associations watching games with my father. I considered boycotting this WC, which would be relatively painless for me, but for several reasons, some personal some philosophical, decided against it. But I do respect those who, at great personal cost, chose otherwise.
I am aware of the long history of corruption by FIFA, I think first made aware by John Oliver some years ago, maybe early in his HBO career (I have not yet had a chance to watch his most recent show, I’m sure he addressed it). I don’t know that everybody is ignoring it this time and just enjoying the game though, my understanding is FIFA is still under criminal investigation in several countries. While heartless dictators largely do what they want, When it comes to something as internationally significant as this event, I think there are constraints. Would Qatar really kick Fox out for offering cursory coverage and even criticism of human rights abuses? Possibly, but I doubt it. Doing that would only amplify the impact of the criticism 100-fold, and shrink the footprint of their big propaganda event. While I have yet to see any notice taken by Fox commentators of human rights abuses in Qatar, the announcers in the England Match did note that many Iranian fans booed the Iranian national anthem (unlike last WC, which in my memory did show the anthems at the start, so far I am not seeing them, though perhaps that is just because of where the YoutubeTV DVR is starting the recording? On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 4:48 PM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> wrote: > I note that the BBC, also a rights holder, didn't show the opening > ceremony on Sunday, instead explaining the background to the tournament and > the issues of migrant worker deaths and lack of human rights in the country. > > > https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/20/bbc-ignores-world-cup-opening-ceremony-in-favour-of-qatar-criticism > > I don't really have an issue with a majority muslim country banning > alcohol in the stadiums, although that feels like something that should > have been announced more than 48 hours before the event. And if FIFA gets > sued by Anheuser-Busch InBev, then I'll laugh. Sadly, I suspect they'll sit > on their hands and remember that the 2026 competition is in the US. > > Yes, the World Cup has been held in authoritarian countries before - as, > on a regular basis, does the Olympics. But I can't sit by and watch a > football tournament take place built on modern day slavery, with perhaps as > many as 6,500 deaths. (Whatever the real number, it's massive). > > So I'm sitting this one out. I didn't watch England today, and sat out > Wales/USA this evening. > > And yes - this is my favourite sport. So if England actually does progress > far in the tournament, it will be torture. But metaphorical torture. Not > actual torture, like building stadia in >50C/120F conditions whilst living > in squalour and being paid a pittance. > > > Adam > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:33 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: > >> FIFA has always been a corrupt sewer. The corruption was low key and easy >> enough to ignore before media rights money exploded. So the corruption has >> become massive and unavoidable to notice but it’s so deeply ingrained in >> the institution that getting rid of it will mean destroying the >> organization and trying to start over again and the money people prefer the >> status quo. >> >> It was openly known and reported on that the choice of countries like >> Russia and Qatar was the result of bribery. Yet when the games start >> everybody turns a blind eye to whatever problems are associated with the >> home country and just concentrate on the soccer. With all of the money Fox >> Sports invested in carrying the World Cup they are just going to play along >> like all of the other rights holders. Part of the issue of holding the >> World Cup in a dictatorial country is the local leader can make any >> decision they want and FIFA is going to spinelessly accommodate it. The >> decision about the armbands is one instance and screwing the long time >> sponsor Budweiser is another. If the Qatari government is unhappy with Fox >> Sports they can throw them out of the country and nobody can overrule them. >> >> If you want to see stories about the ugly side of the Cup, you can find >> them in Sports Illustrated, The Ringer, The Athletic, and pretty much >> anybody else who covers sports. >> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:31 PM Brad Beam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Mr Oliver is with you on Qatari behavior, but yeah, he’s gonna watch the >>> World Cup as well. >>> >>> https://youtu.be/UMqLDhl8PXw >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 21, 2022, at 16:09, Joe Hass <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Two problems: >>> 1. You don't want to waste a substitute (you only have five subs in >>> three opportunities). >>> 2. Yellow cards accumulate both within and outside matches: when you get >>> a second yellow card, you're required to sit out the following match. >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Fuck FIFA. >>>> >>>> I get it (though my understanding is that an in game penalty is unusual >>>> if not unheard of for a uniform violation like this). Still, would like to >>>> see what kind of WC this would become if FIFA would up disqualifying the >>>> Captains of 8 or so European teams. >>>> >>>> As a Soccer neophyte: Would it technically have been possible to make >>>> like the worst player the Captain and let them take the Yellow Card? >>>> >>>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 12:44 PM Joe Hass <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> FIFA put the kibosh on the armbands: >>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/11/21/world-cup-one-love-armbands-yellow-cards/ >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:27 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This is helpful. I have watched the first two matches, and currently >>>>>> in the 12th minute of the Wales-US match, and have been waiting for some >>>>>> mention of the human rights issues. So far, nothing. They do show shots >>>>>> of >>>>>> Beckham, but without the obvious context. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I see the Euros decided not to go with the Rainbow armbands? >>>>>> >>>>>> I was not attending to the fact this was Fox (probably would have >>>>>> guessed ESPN), though yes, now that I think of it I do see the Fox bug in >>>>>> upper left. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 10:19 AM Mark Jeffries <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> When asked at a press conference whether they would report on the >>>>>>> horrible track record regarding human rights of Qatar as part of their >>>>>>> FIFA >>>>>>> World Cup coverage, Fox Sports said something like "the fans want to see >>>>>>> the World Cup" (NBCU's Telemundo, which has the Spanish language rights >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the tournament, says they and NBC News in English will report on the >>>>>>> home >>>>>>> of the event). Considering that government-owned Qatar Airways is a >>>>>>> major >>>>>>> sponsor of the coverage and has made it possible for Fox to have live >>>>>>> announcers at every venue for every match (while, as in the past, TEL's >>>>>>> Andres Cantor will make his trademark "GOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!" call from >>>>>>> studios at Universal City), it is no surprise that they made the >>>>>>> remark--and there was nothing on foxsports.com about the decision >>>>>>> to not sell alcohol at venues (while that was on TEL's website): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://wapo.st/3EPSeDt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/bdd9463f-4f99-4f3d-b225-bc4cf5b4cfean%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> 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