Hi Tony,

We definitely do try to track stuff like this (hence why I lurk everywhere I 
can) and we also do try to link up people/partners when there is experience to 
be shared. As to standards, we do have them (ANSI SQL over ODBC/JDBC, ADO.NET 
through U2 Toolkit, RESTful/JSON via U2 RESTful Web services, SOAP via WSD, 
etc) and continue to focus on industry standards, so it shouldn't matter if we 
are MV or not. In place of cost-justification, think opportunity-cost, which is 
really the biggest factor when decided what to do.

Ideally, a lot more of these needs would be satisfied within and shared by the 
development community, just like with the Microsoft's and IBM's on the world; 
we cannot do everything ourselves. The more active 3rd parties are, the better 
it will be for everyone. I think in this regard, both you and I will agree Tony 
- resources like PickWiki are invaluable but under-appreciated/underused. In 
the ideal world, if Bill couldn't find it from a Rocket provided package, he 
could simply jump on somewhere like PickWiki and find either a code package to 
download, or instructions from someone who did it previously. We are working on 
something to hopefully help out with that.

Cheers,
Dan
________________________________________
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] on behalf of Tony Gravagno 
[3xk547...@sneakemail.com]
Sent: Monday, 1 April 2013 2:10 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Hibernate and UniVerse

Dan, that's a great answer and the right answer and I don't mean to
take anything away from it here.

This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for many of us in the MV
world - getting mainstream tools to work as easily with our databases
as it does with others. I spend a Lot of time doing things like
creating ObjectDataSource wrappers in .NET for MV, where SqlDataSource
and XmlDataSources are readily available. I created an Entity
Framework provider for MV. I write custom BAL/DAL implementations in
Java and other languages simply because these can't be generated from
MV server schema with existing tools. Get FOSS software for ECommerce,
a CMS, or CRM, and it will have ready-made data access for MySQL or
perhaps SQL Server - but you can't use them with MV. ORMs like
Hibernate, NHibernate, CSLA, or OpenAccess requires custom providers,
as do NetTiers templates (for which I created a provider) and other
code generators. Getting help at that low level is difficult, lonely
work because very few people write that kind of code and documentation
is always sparse.

Hibernate has been around for a decade, but poor Bill here is facing
this task on his own like this is some new technology. I have to
believe a bunch of people have dabbled with this over time, perhaps
even made inquiries to their VARs, or with IBM/Rocket Sales or Support
with questions like "do you support Hibernate", and "if not, who might
be able to do this?" Does anyone track requests like that? Does
Marketing ever get a peek at inquiries like that to consider new
development, or perhaps to act like a partner and link up developers
in the field with common interests? It seems like every time a
question like this comes up, it's from one guy who gets convinced that
he's the only one who's ever asked the question before. And given all
of this, is it any wonder that we can't get new developers into this
industry when there are no standard providers (database access layer /
interfaces) for common mainstream libraries and products? Why don't
the MV DBMS companies have a standard protocol for new technologies:
When something new is on the horizon, do some research in the client
base, find  out what people need to do development, and then (based on
cost-justification of course, which is always tough) create the tools.
But be pro-active about it. Consider it an exercise in
self-preservation.

<off the soap box />

Thanks for your time.
T


> From: Daniel McGrath
>
> Every relational database uses its own custom 'flavor' of SQL (after
all,
> that's what standards are for, right?). To handle these differences,
> Hibernate uses the concept of 'dialects' so it knows what keywords
are
> valid for that type of database.
>
> UniVerse is not one of the stock dialects available, so you will
have to
> create a custom dialect to support it. On the positive side, this
will
> allow you to register keywords such as SAMPLE, SAMPLED and
> UNNEST that are unique to UniVerse.
>
> I can't offer you much more help than to point you to some starting
> points: http://keyurj.blogspot.com/2012/12/creating-custom-dialect-
> in-hibernate.html & http://www.systemmobile.com/?p=177
>
> Hope it helps,
>
> Dan McGrath
> Managing Director, U2 Servers Lab
> Rocket Software
>

> From: William Brutzman
> When trying to do ORM (Object Relational Mapping) with ColdFusion...
>
> I am getting an error message... "Hibernate Dialect must be
explicity
> set for dataBase: Universe.
>
> Tips and tricks on Hibernate configuration settings would be
> appreciated.

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