On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 6:08 AM, Otto Kekäläinen<[email protected]> wrote: > Lainaus Alex Launi <[email protected]>: >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Otto Kekäläinen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Well, for advanced uses like you and me F-Spot is fine, but for normal home >>> users it is too complicated. >> >> >> Could you provide some evidence for this? F-spot's UI needs some serious > > > We'll, I've migrated hundreds of Windows users into Ubuntu (I work for > a Linux support company) and nine out of then users run into trouble > when using Nautilus they try to open and/or manipulate images. > > On a fresh Ubuntu install I always install Gthumb and make it the > default image viewer in Nautilus file associations. That fixes all the > usability problems I've witnessed. > > I also work as a usability export in software development projects, > and it's my professional opinion that Gthumb would be better than EOG. > > > If you want to do usability testing yourself, try out this scenario: > 1. prepare a folder with a lot of photos > 2. ask the user to open that folder and do some tasks. for example: > remove duplicate photos, rotate some image, crop/resize another etc. > 3. copy that folder to a CD or USB and give it to you > > Step 2 is where users run into problems. At first when they > doubleclick the image, the only function they can do is to rotate. > After this users do various things, but most commonly they click the > image with the secondary mouse button and select "open with". First > they try F-spot which also only allows rotating (in single image > viewing mode). Secondly they open Gimp and then they scream, that > Linux is too complicated. >
I think you touch on the real issue here. It's not so much a problem with viewing photos, as we all have noted there are already two options, EOG when you are in a folder and F-Spot for collections. The real problem is that those programs aren't image editors and the GIMP is a tool for advanced users. GThumb doesn't solve this problem either. I don't think there is a real solution for Karmic, but I am excited to see where a new project called Nathive goes. It's an image editor for GNOME "focused on usability, logic and providing a smooth learning curve for everyone." It's definitely a niche that the GNOME desktop needs filled.... http://www.nathive.org/ > If Gthumb is installed, steps 2 and 3 generate only minor problems and > most users succeed with the task (based on what I've seen in real life > situations). > > > Or try this: as a user to import a file from their camera/phone to the > computer, then resize it to fit under on megabyte and then mail it to > you. With Gthumb's ability to manipulate images in place this is easy > but with EOG or F-Spot users will not make it at all. Asking somebody > to use Gimp for this simple task is overkill. > >> love, but the developers are working hard. Rather than have TWO photo >> managers, one of which isn't such a great photo manager, it makes more sense > > Yep, we really don't need to photo _managers_. Howerver we need one > proper photo viewer and at the moment, Gthumb is the only one with all > the most commonly needed features. > >> to file bugs on f-spot, and *make it *less complicated. Maybe you could >> point out some specific areas where you feel it's lacking for users. I >> wouldn't call myself an advanced photo user at all, I just use it for minor >> tagging, slide shows, and exporting to facebook/flickr. > > If I'd file a bug, that the file hierarchy should be changed so, that > imported folder remain and single folders, do you think they would do > the change? Touching the filesystem is a major change in architecture > and that is not something they'll do (I presume). > > However it could be worth to file a bug that the single image viewer > mode should have more features, like cropping and resizing. > > >> Also it has one huge drawback: it saves all the pictures in a folder >>> structure based on months and dates. This makes it really hard to browse a >>> F-Spot archive from the filesystem or from any other image viewer. >> >> >> I agree. This is really annoying. > > Jep, this is the biggest drawback and I don't think they'll change > this, because the whole idea with F-Spot is to forget the old file > hierarchy and move on to tagging based work model. > > >>> I know tagging is the superior way to file and sort your images, but the >>> case for normal home (and business) users is that they still like to think >>> about their image collections as folders. >> >> I'm pretty sure this isn't true. Folders confuse the hell out of everyone. >> They only think about them this way because it's all they've ever had. This >> is bigger than f-spot however and needs dealt with at the file system/file >> browser level. > > Sure folders confuse, but since users anyway browse their files in > Nautilus in the first place, jumping to F-Spot to manipulate an image > in a folder really messes up the users head. > > >>> F-Spot sucks at browsing images in folders and to get all the benefits of >>> F-Spot you need to import the images first into the collection. That is an >>> extra step.. >> >> Not really, it's probably fewer steps because you don't need to navigate >> folders once you've imported whereas with a folder based one you're going in >> and out of directories. > > Yes, but if you have images somewhere else, like on a CD, on a network > drive, on your phones memory card, on a USB stick etc and you start > out in Nautilus, doing an import to F-Spot is an extra step. > >>>> Anyway at current Ubuntu defaults, the Eye of Gnome opens all jpg-images, >>> and that is not good. Gthumb would be much better. Neither the the EOG nor >>> F-Spot (in single image viewing mode) allows for any other functions than >>> rotation. Cropping, resizing etc is missing - but can can be found in >>> Gthumb. That is features you can actually find even in the default Windows >>> Vista file browser, so I think this should really get some attention. >> >> >> Let's file some f-spot bug reports :) This shouldn't be difficult to >> implement as the infrastructure already exists, it's just a UI change. Make >> some mockups, file some bugs, and reap the benefits. In the end, we'll all >> be better off. > > I still think that the easiest solution would be to dump EOG in favor > for Gthumb. That's what I've done with all my clients for years and > for them it works very well. They still can use F-Spot if they whish to. > > > -- > Otto Kekäläinen > www.sange.fi > > -- > ubuntu-desktop mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop > - Andrew Starr-Bochicchio -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [email protected] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
