Cody, I'm not speaking for John here, just for myself since I, after having been on this list for just a few days, have the same feeling and your question could as well have been directed towards me:
I'm seriously thinking to withdraw since I'm eager to do some serious work to market Ubuntu in any way I can and this is obviously not the place to do it, at least not yet. Attempts to move forward have so far been met with little or no interest or in some cases even aggressive resistance which was totally anti-productive. Hopefully things will shape up in the future. Maybe the organization just needs to mature a bit more first but I believe it's gonna be a long ride and I'm not gonna sit here and wait for the bus, I spend my time doing something to market Ubuntu instead. I can be more efficient going alone or with others sharing my mindset than trying to work within the rules and boundaries of this group, so it simply makes sense for me to reach out on my own. I'll probably post things on this list when I've done or found something that I think can be of value to others trying to market Ubuntu since I'm sure a lot of interested people read here. Except from that I'll put my focus somewhere else. No offense meant to anyone, I wish you all good luck and hope that we all contribute to our common goal of growing the Ubuntu userbase. I just don't believe in what seems to be your current direction. Regards, Tord 2008/6/13 Cody A.W. Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Tord, >> >> Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new here, I >> was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as it was to >> try and swallow. >> >> And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like to >> refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out for >> myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. > > > I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need to > consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me understand? > > >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:56:21 +0200 >> "Tord Jansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: >> > >> > There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some >> > people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my >> > opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out >> > there which are organized in totally different ways. >> > >> > They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear >> > focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, >> > administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in >> > the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for >> > life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me >> > if I'm wrong). >> > >> > What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of >> > transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the >> > project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out >> > and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for >> > them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important >> > goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be >> > replaced by a duplicate at any time. >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > Tord >> > >> > >> > 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > > Hash: SHA1 >> > > >> > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in >> > > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. >> > > >> > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a >> > > FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it >> > > relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would >> > > very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before >> > > commenting. >> > > >> > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that >> > > seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word >> > > here. That model works well with things like software packages, >> > > documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects >> > > - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But >> > > marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one >> > > might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am >> > > working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of >> > > marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more >> > > intangible. >> > > >> > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - >> > > their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be >> > > focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific >> > > marketing project can have a more specific tangible goal, like >> > > giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a convention, but that goal does not >> > > exist outside of or separate from, the overall goal of changing >> > > peoples minds and behavior. >> > > >> > > Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done >> > > within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really >> > > serious marketing. And because of this need for integration into >> > > the greater marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" >> > > structure - a lead marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing >> > > agencies - to ensure that individual projects are integrated and >> > > coordinated with each other. That is not something that can be done >> > > by consensus or anarchy. Someone - either an individual or a >> > > committee - has to take responsibility for that. >> > > >> > > This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving >> > > the marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the >> > > Ubuntu community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting >> > > those needs. >> > > >> > > There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who >> > > is held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the >> > > marketing team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu >> > > community. >> > > >> > > That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people >> > > on this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a >> > > proposal for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and >> > > held accountable for achieving the marketing goal - Fixing Bug #1 - >> > > of the Ubuntu community. And, IMHO, that is what the entire Ubuntu >> > > community is waiting for us to do - why they are so interested in >> > > this discussion. >> > > >> > > Given that no one, as far as I can tell, has much of a marketing >> > > success track record, operative word being marketing, selecting this >> > > committee by meritocracy is not possible. An election is an option >> > > but that takes time. and at this point in the history of this team, >> > > I am not sure that the results of such an election would be the >> > > best for meeting the needs of the Ubuntu community. >> > > >> > > My opinion on this, and these are the people, with one exception, I >> > > have tried to get together are the people on this list who have >> > > publicly expressed a desire and willingness to be responsible, and >> > > hopefully - although we have not yet discussed this - be held >> > > accountable for meeting the marketing goal of the Ubuntu community. >> > > And who either have prior MARKETING experience or have exhibited >> > > that they understand what marketing is all about. Sorry, people, >> > > but, IMHO, most of you have a very limited understanding of >> > > marketing and how it works. That's not a criticism but a statement >> > > of fact based on my observations of what is being said and done >> > > here. >> > > >> > > I am not familiar with all the in and outs, both technical and >> > > political, of how things get done on the Ubuntu community. But I do >> > > know marketing, having done it in one form or another since I was a >> > > kid with a paper route. And, honestly, knowing marketing should be >> > > the ONLY real criteria for leadership on this team. Anything else >> > > can be delegated to people with the appropriate technical skills or >> > > political savvy. >> > > >> > > Finally, if the FOSS model that seems to be invoking as something >> > > sacrosanct does not work for this team, then let's find one that >> > > does work. But, IMO. the REAL FOSS model does work with some >> > > modification, perhaps, because of the particular place this team is >> > > at at this particular time. Reserve judgment until you actually >> > > have something to judge and stop nitpicking because we are perhaps >> > > going against what everyone else is supposedly doing. >> > > >> > > - -- >> > > Peace! >> > > >> > > John >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> > > >> > > iD8DBQFIUlhVsTN+hz1Fu7URAlBYAJ0Sv3vAGsT0Xa/C1Ou9fEo1EYbUQgCeOKjL >> > > nCkpJIVDgEvpJNXaXST8c98= >> > > =EiSk >> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > > -- >> > > ubuntu-marketing mailing list >> > > [email protected] >> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing >> > > >> >> >> - -- >> Peace! >> >> John >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iD8DBQFIUmP9sTN+hz1Fu7URAkkwAKCD190Q8jD+9J+6JbrRhTbGNQVzbACfTvA9 >> oYo5kFeIGpZl6cWfRXfoJnE= >> =a+JG >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> -- >> ubuntu-marketing mailing list >> [email protected] >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing >> > > > > -- > Cody A.W. Somerville > Software Engineer > Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. > Office: 506-458-1290 > Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 > Fax: 506-453-9112 > Cell: 506-449-5899 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.redcow.ca > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > [email protected] > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > >
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