----- Original Message ----- From: "The Fugee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UPCNet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 8:40 PM Subject: The Monitor, July 15, 1997
> UPC built 22 hospitals, what about Museveni? > > The Monitor, July 15, 1997 > > This is the second and last part of Dr. Obote's interview last week > with two Ugandan > journalists in Lusaka, Zambia. The Monitor's Andrew M. Mwenda took a > recording. The first > part ran in yesterday's issue:- > > Mwenda: Dr. Milton, what do you see as your role in Uganda today? > > Obote: I am a leader of a political party and take it from me: This > thing that a leader of a > political party should be inside the country, is not always the case. > > Take the example of [South African President Nelson] Mandela. He was in > jail for 27 > years, but the ANC kept saying, "Our leader is Mandela." > > Take Kenyatta: he was in jail. People would say, "Our leader is > Kenyatta." > > Take the late Bishop Makarios. He was in the Seychelles, but people > kept saying, "Our > leader is Makarious." He went back and became president. > > Peron [of Argentina] was removed by the army and went to the United > States for three > years. People kept calling him their leader and he went back and became > president. > > I am working on this, not for myself -- to become president. NO. I have > sown seeds, > political seeds. Some fell on bad rock like Kirunda Kivejinja, Kintu Musoke > and Bidandi Ssali. > These are thieves who even stole UPC machines which China gave us to build > SAPOBA. That is why they don't like me -- because I am clean. > > But I have also sown good seeds who can take over Uganda tommorrow and > they will do > it. > > Mwenda: Who are these good seeds? > > Obote: The good boys and girls of UPC. They are very many. > > Mwenda: Can you mention any? > > Obote: Why should I mention them? You know them by what they do: by > their opposition > to dictatorship. If I mention them, you will say I am appointing them to > take over. > > UPC has a constitution where leadership is elected, unlike in the NRM > leadership. These > people have been in government since 1986. Have you ever heard of them > meeting to elect a > leader or leaders? NEVER. > > They say UPC is bankrupt of ideas. It is they who are bankrupt of > ideas. For 12 years they > have not met anywhere in Uganda to debate policy to rule Uganda. They can't > elect leaders. > > For us in UPC, even with the current barriers, we're going to elect > leaders from the > grassroots to the delegates' conference, district conference and > constituency conference. > > Look at the 1994 CA statute. They said UPC, DP, UPM and CP should send > two delegates > each. UPC refused to send them. When we refused, UPM also decided not to > send its > delegates. Then they dissolved UPM. > > How do you dissolve a political party without calling a delagates' > conference to meet and > deliberate? Museveni just dissolved the party. > > Ochan: People in Uganda are confused. There is the Cecilia Ogwal group > and the Obote > group. What is your comment? > > Obote: Cecilia has signed two policy statements on behalf of UPC. One > in 1989 when > Museveni said he was going to hold the first election to expand the NRC. > Cecilia issued a > statement exhorting UPC members not to participate because it was not going > to be free and fair > to UPC since UPC was not going to field its own candidates. > > Statement number two was in May last year: Cecilia exhorted UPC members > not to accept > Museveni's model of elections because it was not fair to UPC. > > She signed both of them. > > Then Cecilia went to contest an NRM election. I was not against this. I > said, "If your > conscience allows you to run in the election, go ahead, but if you have an > office in the > party, either elected or appointed and you want to contest, leave our > uniform in our office. > Resign first." Cecilia wanted to go > to Museveni's parliament as an official leader of UPC. In a way, Cecilia > seemed to be working > for Museveni. > > Cecilia has never held an elected post in UPC. I appointed her to be > assistant secretary- > general and chairperson of the Presidential Policy Commission (PPC). When I > removed her, > she said, "You cannot remove me. Thank you very much for appointing me. > You're a fool; I > have taken over!" > > That is what Cecilia Ogwal is doing. Let us open politics in Uganda. > She will die of a heart > attack. Once we remove Article 269, UPC people in the villages will reject > her. > > I warned her last year when she was in California selling Museveni with > Kisekka. She > wrote to me saying, "Museveni is introducing a bill which is going to make > me a member of > NRM; what do I do?" > > I said, "You should have known, but if I were you, I would go to > parliament and oppose > that bill vigorously and then resign." > > Everybody who is not bought would see that I had opened a window for > her to come back. > The bill was passed yesterday andI don't think she said anything to oppose > it. > > Mwenda: If Museveni offered you an olive branch to return home to > Uganda, would you > come back? > > Obote: (emphatically) Oh yes, oh yes, on condition that Article 269 is > not there. > > Mwenda: If he removed Article 269 and allowed multi-party politics, but > did not invite you, > would you come back? > > Obote: (again with emphasis) Oh yes, I would come back and let him kill > me. > > Mwenda: He has said he would shoot you at the airport. > > Obote: Let him shoot me, but I would come. > > Mwenda: You were a great friend of [former Zambian president Kenneth] > Kaunda and > Nyerere and had an organisation linking CCM, UNIP and UPC called the > Mulungushi Club. > Are you still in contact and is Mulungushi Club still alive? > > Obote: Mulungushi Club was an alliance or association of political > parties which were in > government. Only one of them now is in government: CCM. UNIP was booted out > and UPC is > in jail. > > Mwenda: But are you still in contact with your friends? > > Obote: This was not a personal, but a political association. > > Mwenda: Well, the three of you were personal friends. > > Obote: Well, there was an element of that. > > Mwenda: Have you heard > from Nyerere or Kaunda? > > Obote: No. > > Mwenda: Why? > > Obote: Because I am a refugee and they're not refugees. There is a big > difference > between a refugee and a free man. > > Ochan: Article 269 blocks political parties. The 1999 referendum will > certainly outlaw > political parties. What will UPC do? > > Obote: That is why we have been meeting here; to produce a > programme of fighting the referendum. As UPC we're totally opposed to the > referendum > because it is not only aimed at removing UPC from the body politic of > Uganda. It is also > to remove you, Ochan, your right to freedom of conscience. It will remove > your individual > freedom of expression to impart or receive ideas. You will only be able to > receive ideas from > Museveni. > > Mwenda: What is your view of the current wars in Gulu, Kitgum, West > Nile and now > Bundibugyo and Kasese? > > Obote: It arises from the system of government. How come under UPC > there were no > such wars? That is a reaction by the people. It also gives the dictators in > Kampala a chance > to keep it going. I have read in your papers in Kampala, even [retired > maverick Maj. Gen. > David] Tinyefuza said, that it is commanders of NRA who profiteer from the > war and who > don't want the war to end. > > It is not only Oris and Kony who are killing and maiming. The NRA are > also doing it. Some > of these abductions are being done by NRA. Forget about the new name, UPDF. > It is still > NRA. > > Mwenda: What is your comment on the alleged Ugandan involvement in the > war in Sudan, > Rwanda and Zaire? > > Obote: Museveni wants to build an empire. He's a dictator in Kampala > who wants to export > his dictatorship into Rwanda which he did successfully, then Bujumbura. He > has exported it > to Zaire, now he wants to export it to southern Sudan, then to Kenya and > maybe up to here, > who knows? > > He's exporting dictatorship, but he calls it 'home-grown democracy, > no-party democracy, > broad-based government'. This is terrible. I blame the donors for financing > it. On his own, > he would have found it heavy to finance. > > Amos Kajoba (The People): Your Excellency, you have been in power twice > and each time > you have been overthrown [in a militarycoup]. What has been the cause of > this? > > Obote: The first thing to note is that we have been removed from the > party twice not by > the people but by the army. Secondly, the two coups occurred on the eve of > elections, not > before. Three, the two coups occurred when the economy was doing very > well. The UPC opponents and adversaries got scared that another election > would be an > entrenchment of the UPC government by the people. They were coups against > the people. > > We built 22 rural hospitals in the 1960s. Museveni has been in power > for 12 years and he > has not built one single hospital, not one. This thing is like a loaf of > bread in Kampala. There > are two people in Uganda who want to eat it; An old woman and a young baby > about to die of > malnutrition. > > > -------------------------------------------- This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
