The Fugee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Fugee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "UPCNet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 8:40 PM
Subject: The Monitor, July 15, 1997
> UPC built 22 hospitals, what about Museveni?
>
> The Monitor, July 15, 1997
>
> This is the second and last part of Dr. Obote's interview last week
> with two Ugandan
> journalists in Lusaka, Zambia. The Monitor's Andrew M. Mwenda took a
> recording. The first
> part ran in yesterday's issue:-
>
> Mwenda: Dr. Milton, what do you see as your role in Uganda today?
>
> Obote: I am a leader of a political party and take it from me: This
> thing that a leader of a
> political party should be inside the country, is not always the case.
>
> Take the example of [South African President Nelson] Mandela. He was
in
> jail for 27
> years, but the ANC kept saying, "Our leader is Mandela."
>
> Take Kenyatta: he was in jail. People would say, "Our leader is
> Kenyatta."
>
> Take the late Bishop Makarios. He was in the Seychelles, but people
> kept saying, "Our
> leader is Makarious." He went back and became president.
>
> Peron [of Argentina] was removed by the army and went to the United
> States for three
> years. People kept calling him their leader and he went back and became
> president.
>
> I am working on this, not for myself -- to become president. NO. I
have
> sown seeds,
> political seeds. Some fell on bad rock like Kirunda Kivejinja, Kintu
Musoke
> and Bidandi Ssali.
> These are thieves who even stole UPC machines which China gave us to build
> SAPOBA. That is why they don't like me -- because I am clean.
>
> But I have also sown good seeds who can take over Uganda tommorrow
and
> they will do
> it.
>
> Mwenda: Who are these good seeds?
>
> Obote: The good boys and girls of UPC. They are very many.
>
> Mwenda: Can you mention any?
>
> Obote: Why should I mention them? You know them by what they do: by
> their opposition
> to dictatorship. If I mention them, you will say I am appointing them to
> take over.
>
> UPC has a constitution where leadership is elected, unlike in the NRM
> leadership. These
> people have been in government since 1986. Have you ever heard of them
> meeting to elect a
> leader or leaders? NEVER.
>
> They say UPC is bankrupt of ideas. It is they who are bankrupt of
> ideas. For 12 years they
> have not met anywhere in Uganda to debate policy to rule Uganda. They
can't
> elect leaders.
>
> For us in UPC, even with the current barriers, we're going to elect
> leaders from the
> grassroots to the delegates' conference, district conference and
> constituency conference.
>
> Look at the 1994 CA statute. They said UPC, DP, UPM and CP should
send
> two delegates
> each. UPC refused to send them. When we refused, UPM also decided not to
> send its
> delegates. Then they dissolved UPM.
>
> How do you dissolve a political party without calling a delagates'
> conference to meet and
> deliberate? Museveni just dissolved the party.
>
> Ochan: People in Uganda are confused. There is the Cecilia Ogwal
group
> and the Obote
> group. What is your comment?
>
> Obote: Cecilia has signed two policy statements on behalf of UPC. One
> in 1989 when
> Museveni said he was going to hold the first election to expand the NRC.
&g t; Cecilia issued a
> statement exhorting UPC members not to participate because it was not
going
> to be free and fair
> to UPC since UPC was not going to field its own candidates.
>
> Statement number two was in May last year: Cecilia exhorted UPC
members
> not to accept
> Museveni's model of elections because it was not fair to UPC.
>
> She signed both of them.
>
> Then Cecilia went to contest an NRM election. I was not against this.
I
> said, "If your
> conscience allows you to run in the election, go ahead, but if you have an
> office in the
> party, either elected or appointed and you want to contest, leave our
> uniform in our office.
> Resign first." Cecilia wanted to go
> to Museveni's parliament as an official leader of UPC. In a way, Cecilia
> seemed to be working
> for Museveni.
>
> Cecilia has never held an elected post in UPC . I appointed her to be
> assistant secretary-
> general and chairperson of the Presidential Policy Commission (PPC). When
I
> removed her,
> she said, "You cannot remove me. Thank you very much for appointing me.
> You're a fool; I
> have taken over!"
>
> That is what Cecilia Ogwal is doing. Let us open politics in Uganda.
> She will die of a heart
> attack. Once we remove Article 269, UPC people in the villages will reject
> her.
>
> I warned her last year when she was in California selling Museveni
with
> Kisekka. She
> wrote to me saying, "Museveni is introducing a bill which is going to make
> me a member of
> NRM; what do I do?"
>
> I said, "You should have known, but if I were you, I would go to
> parliament and oppose
> that bill vigorously and then resign."
>
> Everybody who is not bought would see that I had opened a window for
> her to come back.
> The bill was passed yesterday andI don't think she said anything to oppose
> it.
>
> Mwenda: If Museveni offered you an olive branch to return home to
> Uganda, would you
> come back?
>
> Obote: (emphatically) Oh yes, oh yes, on condition that Article 269
is
> not there.
>
> Mwenda: If he removed Article 269 and allowed multi-party politics,
but
> did not invite you,
> would you come back?
>
> Obote: (again with emphasis) Oh yes, I would come back and let him
kill
> me.
>
> Mwenda: He has said he would shoot you at the airport.
>
> Obote: Let him shoot me, but I would come.
>
> Mwenda: You were a great friend of [former Zambian president Kenneth]
> Kaunda and
> Nyerere and had an organisation linking CCM, UNIP and UPC called the
> Mulungushi Club.
> Are you still in contact and is Mulungushi C lub still alive?
>
> Obote: Mulungushi Club was an alliance or association of political
> parties which were in
> government. Only one of them now is in government: CCM. UNIP was booted
out
> and UPC is
> in jail.
>
> Mwenda: But are you still in contact with your friends?
>
> Obote: This was not a personal, but a political association.
>
> Mwenda: Well, the three of you were personal friends.
>
> Obote: Well, there was an element of that.
>
> Mwenda: Have you heard
> from Nyerere or Kaunda?
>
> Obote: No.
>
> Mwenda: Why?
>
> Obote: Because I am a refugee and they're not refugees. There is a
big
> difference
> between a refugee and a free man.
>
> Ochan: Article 269 blocks political parties. The 1999 referendum will
> certainly outlaw
> political parties. What will UPC do?
>
> Obote: That is why we have been meeting here; to produce a
> programme of fighting the referendum. As UPC we're totally opposed to the
> referendum
> because it is not only aimed at removing UPC from the body politic of
> Uganda. It is also
> to remove you, Ochan, your right to freedom of conscience. It will remove
> your individual
> freedom of _expression_ to impart or receive ideas. You will only be able to
> receive ideas from
> Museveni.
>
> Mwenda: What is your view of the current wars in Gulu, Kitgum, West
> Nile and now
> Bundibugyo and Kasese?
>
> Obote: It arises from the system of government. How come under UPC
> there were no
> such wars? That is a reaction by the people. It also gives the dictators
in
> Kampala a chance
> to keep it going. I have read in your papers in Kampala, even [retired
> maverick Maj. Gen.
> David] Tinyefuza said, that it is commande rs of NRA who profiteer from the
> war and who
> don't want the war to end.
>
> It is not only Oris and Kony who are killing and maiming. The NRA are
> also doing it. Some
> of these abductions are being done by NRA. Forget about the new name,
UPDF.
> It is still
> NRA.
>
> Mwenda: What is your comment on the alleged Ugandan involvement in
the
> war in Sudan,
> Rwanda and Zaire?
>
> Obote: Museveni wants to build an empire. He's a dictator in Kampala
> who wants to export
> his dictatorship into Rwanda which he did successfully, then Bujumbura. He
> has exported it
> to Zaire, now he wants to export it to southern Sudan, then to Kenya and
> maybe up to here,
> who knows?
>
> He's exporting dictatorship, but he calls it 'home-grown democracy,
> no-party democracy,
> broad-based government'. This is terrible. I blame the donors for
financing
> it. On his own,
> he would have found it heavy to finance.
>
> Amos Kajoba (The People): Your Excellency, you have been in power
twice
> and each time
> you have been overthrown [in a militarycoup]. What has been the cause of
> this?
>
> Obote: The first thing to note is that we have been removed from the
> party twice not by
> the people but by the army. Secondly, the two coups occurred on the eve of
> elections, not
> before. Three, the two coups occurred when the economy was doing very
> well. The UPC opponents and adversaries got scared that another election
> would be an
> entrenchment of the UPC government by the people. They were coups against
> the people.
>
> We built 22 rural hospitals in the 1960s. Museveni has been in power
> for 12 years and he
> has not built one single hospital, not one. This thing is like a loaf of
> bread in Kampala. There
> are two people in Uganda who want to eat it; An old woman and a young baby
> about to die of
> malnutrition.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------
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