Matembe: NRM now like Obote
Ms Miria Koburunga Matembe, 51, was sacked from Cabinet last year for opposing the removal of presidential term limits to enable President Museveni stand for an extra term in 2006. The former ethics and integrity minister warns President Museveni that there other Ugandans who may be forced into another bush war to redeem Uganda. She spoke to Ssemujju Ibrahim Nganda:-
When did you join the Movement?
Matembe: As soon as the National Resistance Army arrived in 1986. But I was with them spiritually before because I was in the Uganda Patriotic Movement. And Mzee (Mr. Museveni) went to the bush with my relatives, like my late brother Lt. Col. Lyangombe.What attracted you to the Movement?
Matembe: The history we had experienced. The Milton Obote (1981-85) and Idi Amin (1971-79) times were terrible. When UNLF liberated Uganda in 1979, I joined the UPM. We thought democracy had come. But elections (in December 1980) were rigged and Mzee went to the bush. The NRM/A came back with the 10-point programme.It was a fantastic document. It really changed my thinking... One important thing that also attracted me to the Movement was the position of women.
What has the Movement achieved?
Matembe: Mobilising people to unite and work for the progress of the country...
The Movement picked Uganda from a ditch and brought it to the top. But if it is not careful, it will reverse the gains it had made.Why should the Movement be careful?
Matembe: The Movement has diverted from the road it was following. The issues they fought against are the issues they are embracing. NRM fought to bring democracy, but it is fighting democracy.In 1989 we were elected on the genuine principle of individual merit. In the 1994 CA elections, there was a little bit of �ours� and �not ours�...
By 2001, the Movement was behaving as a political party and actually sponsored candidates. The President openly campaigned for �his� candidates. The Movement had become exclusive and narrow-based.
Is that the reason you are warning the Movement?
Matembe: The Movement is simply intolerant to divergent views. Presently I do not see the difference from Obote�s government. The way they are torturing people in safe houses, the way they tortured Prof. Latigo Ogenga�s driver using electric wire.
That is what Obote�s government was doing. Amin�s government did these things and they are now beginning to surface.
Sectarianism and ethnicity are now at the highest.Why didn�t you stop these things?
Matembe: Some people would talk and the rest would say these are �disgruntled�. Remember Taddeo Kanyankole, Brig. Kamwesigwa, John Kazoora, Lt. Gen. David Tinyefuza?
Tinyefuza now has no shame to say that he was ill advised [to attempt to resign from the army and criticise Museveni].
Things are like [George Orwell�s] Animal Farm. The chicken used to come and say I have been misadvised by so and so. Who was misadvising Tinyefuza? He saw the wrong things and he still sees them.At least Tinyefuza spoke out, but what about you?
Matembe: The Ankole Parliamentary Caucus talked at Rwakitura (Museveni�s country home) and at State House. All the issues [Kizza] Besigye raised in his letter (the former presidential candidate�s special paper on NRM in 2000) we had discussed with the top leadership many times.We invited Besigye in the caucus; guess who storms it, the big chief and he says, �You cannot listen to him. He talked in the wrong forum�.
So you spoke out?
Matembe: Even when I talked at Kyankwanzi, I was told that I did terrible; that I talked in the wrong forum.
Eriya Kategaya (former deputy prime minister) talked in the wrong forum, everybody talks in the wrong forum. But the question is: Is what we are talking about right? That is never addressed.
By the 2001 elections, things had reached such [a bad level] some members even never contested... The discussions were becoming narrower and narrower...What is the major political question today?
Matembe: Democracy. The Movement government is deliberately stifling democracy. Imagine buying and intimidating Members of Parliament to go on one side. They are attacking the judiciary and undermining it. You undermine Parliament, you undermine the judiciary and you say that you are interested in democracy?
Imagine there is only one year remaining for the change of government. The Constitution says that [President Museveni] cannot contest (in 2006 after two five-year terms) but with one year left, the country is left in uncertainty; in confusion only struggling for kisanja (campaign to lift presidential term limits for Museveni�s benefit). That is flouting the Constitution. [They are] flouting the Rules of Parliament. There is total intolerance to any divergent view!You fought corruption as minister for integrity and ethics. Is it going down?
Matembe: Corruption is politically embraced. If anybody wants to be corrupt, the time is now. As long as you support kisanja, nobody will touch you however much money you steal, or whatever you do.
The battle against corruption is now lost. And of course corruption means underdevelopment.How can we solve this?
Matembe: You do not allow people to mobilise for alternative views and then you complain that people are going to the bush?
The moment NRM came to power (in 1986), I thought that was going to be the last time we change government through the gun.But this is only possible if the government is tolerant.
If government is not tolerant to the other views, silencing them, arresting them, putting them in prison, beating them up, then some people will go to the bush again.If you met President Museveni now what would you tell him?
Matembe: That he is not the only Ugandan who loves Uganda. All Ugandans love Uganda and want to live in this country happily and peacefully. And they can only do that when his government allows them to talk freely...Museveni is not the only person who can decide to sacrifice his life� Other Ugandans can decide to go to the bush and fight. But war means Uganda will suffer again yet there is a better alternative.
How do you see the situation towards 2006?
Matembe: Unless there is a conducive environment for all political players, by 2006 it could be hell in this country. People are not prepared to be swallowed, or to keep quiet or to give up...What are the chances for FDC?
Matembe: If the political environment is free and conducive, FDC has high chances. The founders of FDC are from the Movement. They have the original ideals of the Movement, and they want to make sure that those ideals are moved forward and not diverted.Look at me. Do you think I am incapable of explaining to the people why I joined FDC and where it is taking them? But when you go to speak to people they say do not hold a public rally; you go to consult quietly but they intimidate the owners of halls.
Where do they want us to go? The NRM is so scared of our power. They know we can go and turn tables around.
What are FDC�s chances in Ankole and Buganda?
Matembe: Those Banyankole you joke with them. Look at that Bushenyi where people called Obote Nyamurunga (the beautiful bird). When he went away [after 1985 military coup] they are now dancing to our man - kisanja, kisanja.They can easily turn from Movement and dance to other songs. Even Baganda are like that. The NRM government knows it and that is why they are not creating a conducive environment.
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