Mw. Busuulwa,
I understand what you are saying. And I agree that a Muganda who decided to settle in Lira should not be kicked out, just because we have a federal arrangement.
But what happens when that Muganda in Lira starts telling the Langi to abandon their way of life, and instead a Kabaka, start eating enswa, using bark cloth for this or that, etc. i,e, try to Bagandanize the Luo?
Musamize
Jesse Busuulwa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mw. Oryema and Mw. Musamize,
Although am not the author of the federo group, let me try to endevour in
putting records right. I don't think that the federo that is being
propagated here is based on ethnicity. I understand it as away of
decentralising power. Giving more power or some form of autonomy to
regional governments.
However, we have to appreciate that our geographical regions are more
predominantly distinguished by tribal differences. When we talk about
Southern, Western, Eastern, Northern Regions, we tend to be talking about
the different ethnic groups that dwell in these regions, Baganda/Basoga,
Banyoro/Batooro/Banyankore, Ba Samya/Bagwere/Bakedi, Acholi/Langi/Lugbara
respectively. Unfortunately, this is not going to change, that is how it is
and will ever be.
I t is very unfortunate because, with our political history full of intrigue,
dishonesty and nepotism, a fertile ground was laid for the seed of distrust
amongst the regions. One reason for this being that our leaders have been
closely associated with the regions from which they come from. That is,
when a leader is bad, we tend to associate him with his region of orign,
this is so because of nepotism.
A good example of this is the army, if you follow the historical structure
of our army you would agree that there has been a regional inbalance in the
army for every regime in Uganda to create a power base for that regime. The
inbalance in the army was and still is a good foundation and instrumental
in sustaining dictatorial regimes. Remember the saying, "before you take
power, show me you generals". Another example, the inbalance in the
current distribution of government "fa t" jobs and selling off of government
infrastractures.
I wish we could talk about regional governments without meaning the ethnic
residents, but it is innevitable, because these are the people who have
lived in these regions for a long time, the people who know their needs
better than anyone, the people who understand their regional difficulties
better, people who can sort out their differences better and so on. Don't
forget the cultures, who will respect their culture and use it productively.
The federo I propagate does not suport for a Muganda who has decided to
settle in Lira or Arua, a Luo who has settled in Wakiso and a Mukedi has
settled in Mukono, that he/she should be kicked out. Because the new
settlers become part and pursle of that region.
I think it is possible for different ethnic regions to join together and
form a federal region, for example Western regions, has Banyankore, Bakiga,
and Bafumbira. I am thinking of bigger regions than the current districts
and not too big to difeat the purpose of decentralization of power.
Jesse.
<br><br><br>>From: "Oryema Johnson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><br>>Reply-To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>>CC: [email protected],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>>Subject: RE: [FedsNet] RE: Where do
we go from here? - UPC's Plan<br>>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:24:24
+0000<br>><br>
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From: "Oryema Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:24:24 +0000
Subject: RE: [FedsNet] RE: Where do we go from here? - UPC's Plan
mw. Musamize:
Your wishes for an Oryema empire is misplaced. You are referring to your own suggestion: "Let the Luos or the batoro regroup" then federate. In response this is what i said "If the Luos were to regroup based on leniage and family tree or gene mapping, they will have to go all the way to Kisumu and meet Odinga's family to secure some of the original Luo DNA for the proposed East Africa Luo dynasty. That would be a hell of work, I concluded. Which meant, it is not worth the effort! Then I went on to say, my vision of a federation is not based on tribal mark as is being propagated by Buganda and Baganda, but on geography. By incedence of history, what we call northern Uganda is comprised of Lugbara, Kakwa, Madi, Okebo, Alur, Lendu, Lango and Acholi. If we were to federate according to tribes, as federo is preaching, we will have 8 states in northern Uganda alone. If that were to be the case, there would be a gypsy state in every European country.
Federalism as currently being propagated by the federo group is nothing more than "ntondo". It is a homeland based on tribe not a political system. i would also like to point out that my difference with you is not because you come from Southern Uganda and i come from the north, I couldn't care less. It is because we differ on how uganda should be governed and what it would take to make good use of what we got on the night of October 9th, 1962. My vision of a federated Uganda will include the protection of what we got that night. If it means it is just the north keeping that night as the most important night in our country's history, so be it!
Oryema
>From: musamize <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: [FedsNet] RE: Where do we go from here? - UPC's Plan
>Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Mr. Oryema,
>
>I wish you well in your empire bulding schemes. And while you have not solicited my opinion, I'll give you one anyway.
>
>In the creation of the Nile or Greater Luo Republic, you might have more success if you started by amalgamating the Luo's in Uganda. If that scheme is successful, I am sure you'll soon have other Luos begging for permission to be allowed to join you in paradise.
>
>Good luck on your quest! When does it begin?
>
>Oryema Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Mw. Musamize:
>
>You write: "or the Luos could form a single entity, the Banyakitara another, etc that can then federate".
>
>The regional arrangement we envisage in the north would not be based on tribal identity nor cultural trait as you envisage for Buganda. If the Luos were to regroup for example, and call for a Luo nation, they would have to talk to the Kenyans so that they can free Kisumu and send Jaramogi Odinga Odinga back to Kitgum. We will have to talk to the Tanzanians so that they can send back the Luos living in Mwanza along the shores of Lake Victoria. We will have to talk to the Congolese so that they can free Bunia, Mahagi etc so that the Alurs and Lendus living there can return to Pakwach. That is a hell of headache to deal with.
>
>Self-rule in the north will be based on geography not tribe, so that the Kakwa, Lugbara, Alur, Acholi and Langi do not have to find a new place to move to. The Baganda, if there are any in the north will not be told to return to Kyadondo or Katikamu if they are comfortable eating "akalo" (millet) and freely dancing larakaraka in Peche stadium (Gulu) or Adungu in Nebbi. Suprisingly, though, there are more Baganda in Boston outside Buganda than there are in any other parts of Uganda! So that is not our worry, what to do with Baganda in the north. A second thought, however, will have to be given to the "Batera embudu" who are illegally living in the north.
>
>So Mw. Musamize, the question of the northeners moving back north is no longer if, but when. We have had enough of each other politically. Time to call it quits!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: musamize <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >CC: [email protected]
> >Subject: [FedsNet] RE: Where do we go from here? - UPC's Plan
> >Date: Fri, 22 J ul 2005 15:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Mr. Oryema:
> >
> >I think you are the one shoving unitarism on us, the Baganda. We don't want it for the simple reason that it compromises our cultural autonomy, among other things. And the srife we have all endured and experienced for the last 40 years is proof enough that unitarism doesn't work. Yestersday it was the Baganda, today it is the Acholi, tomorrow it may be the Ateso, or Lugbara, or whomever. Clearly we are in a stalemate.
> >
> >Federalism offers a solution that can result into peaceful co-existence, and in a single nation.
> >
> >If the rest of Uganda want unitarism, there is a solution: it can combine into a single entity, and then federate with us who want to preserve out Kingdom(s). or the Luos could form a single entity, the Banyakitara another, etc that can then federate. That way everybody gets what they want: we do not impose on you , and you do not impose on us. This is a solution that works in several European countries, N. America, Australia, etc. It can work in Uganda too. Tiny countries in Africa already exist: Lesotho, Cape Verde, Seychelles, Burundi, etc.
> >
> >The alternative is that,we, the Baganda leave Uganda and you can do whatever you want with it. You cannot hold us by force, anymore than we can you -- and we do not even want to. If at some point we discover that we cannot do with out you and that it was a mistake to leave in the first place we shall come back, "humbled", and beg you please let us back in, etc. But, we have the right to make that mistake.
> >
> >The Czhecks & Slavs have done it, Yugoslavia has done it, the Stans in the former USSR have done it, etc, and others will do it. Believe me you, the sun will still rise and set, and rains will still fall from the heavens. We too can do it. Peacefully.
> >
> > ;Fair enough?
> >
> >Oryema Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Jesse:
> >
> >I hear you. The purpose of and pricinples behind Uganda's struggle for indepedence was not to build upon the colonial policies of divide and rule and most of all not to erect an apartheid system in the country. Therefore, it was natural for our leaders who brought political indepedence to do so under the theme of "One nation, One people". There had to be a rallying point in order to battle colonialism. To this day, we still blame colonialism (British) for their policy of divide and rule.
> >
> >If Obote had said to the Baganda keep yours and we other Ugandans shall keep ours, it would have defeated the purpose of our indepedence struggle.
> >
> >If after 40 years of indepedence, it has now dawn upon Baganda, to demand for their ebyaffe, which they claim, it is the Kingdom and the land in Bugan da, they are free to declare indepedence and go their way. And maybe other Ugandans will follow their example and do the same. Someone has to break the ice.
> >
> >
> >Eritea did not want to be part of Ethiopia. They fought for 30 years and won their freedom. After living on their own for more than a decade and discovered how hard it is, they now want back in again, and Ethiopia is saying no! Maybe once Baganda have lived on their own and discovered that the 'Byaffe they wanted is not enough, they will be hambled and learn to share and co-exist happily ever after!
> >
> >The ball is in your court. If you want a referee, I will be more than happy to preside!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jesse Busuulwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: RE: [Northernlightnet] RE: [FedsNet] RE: [W here do we go from here? - UPC's Plan
> > >Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:40:31 +0000
> > >
> > >Mr. Oryema,
> > >
> > >I totally disagree with you when you say that ; "Ugandans, I am sure, will
> > >have no trouble respecting Baganda's wish to retain their cultural
> > >leadership as long as it is not pushed in their face all the time".
> > >
> > >Mr. Oryema, if I may ask, who is doing the pushing? If the Baganda are
> > >asking for what belongs to them, don't they have the right to ask, like any
> > >other Ugandan? In doing so, are they forcing anyone to belong to their
> > >culture or pay loyality to their king?
> > >
> > >Remember that, Buganda was forced to abandon its loyality to their King in
> > >1966, what do you call that? And who was doing the pushing then? Wasn't
> > >it that, the others were pushing their interests in buganda face? As
> > >someone has already pointed out, since independence a part from a very short
> > >period, there has not been a Muganda leader to do any pushing as you want us
> > >to believe; but all leaders from other regions, have been working very hard
> > >as if in a cohort, to distroy the buganda culture and its leadership.
> > >
> > >I did not think that the demand for "ebyaffe", included having a Muganda
> > >King for the whole country. If so, then you are right Mr. Oryema and am
> > >sorry I was led to believe otherwise.
> > >
> > >I just hope that, all those who don't understand the buganda culture, should
> > >let it be. What the baganda are looking for is very simple, to be left
> > >alone to ran their own cultural affairs without being told how. We welcome
> > >ideas like any other progressive society but these ideas should not be the
> > >foundations of our culture or commanded.
> > >
> > >I have began to wonder, whether the respect we give to our culture has
> > >become so annoying and painful to others, that at times it is mistaken for
> > >"shoving/pushing" it in other people'sr faces. It is understandable and I
> > >don't have an answer for that. But tell you what, if you have something
> > >you love so much, dont you talk about it, show it off, be proud of it? And
> > >if it is taken away from you, don't you cry for it, demand for it. And if
> > >returned, don't you want to assume full control over it and ma ke sure it
> > >wont be taken away again?
> > >
> > >The different nations in Uganda, Bunyoro, Tooro, Busoga, and Ankore, and
> > >others paid their loyalities to different cultural leadership (kings and
> > >chiefs). This does not mean that they did'nt belong to the nation Uganda
> > >before their Kings/chiefs were abolished. The difference with Buganda is
> > >that they have been couragious enough to demand for what they believed to be
> > >theirs. When the buganda cultural leadership was reinstated other regions
> > >followed queue in their demands. If this was a bad move, why do other
> > >regions follow buganda?
> > >
> > >We can still live in Uganda as one, with our cultural differences. What
> > >makes us one is the respect for one another and each others beliefs. The
> > >abundance of and the richness in our cultures, is what made/makes Uganda the
> > >perl and tick, and this should make every Ugandan proud.
> > >
> > >Federalism is the only way that can bring people of difference ethnicity to
> > >respect each other as Ugandans at the same time, be able to take control of
> > >their own cultural, social and economical issues.
> > >
> > >This brings me to the real meaning of "ebyaffe". In demanding "ebyaffe",
> > >apart from the 9000 mls of land and the cultural leadership, the baganda are
> > >demanding for true federalism, which is "self governing". If a peasant, in
> > >Nakaseke is asked what federalism means, he/she will tell you in one word
> > >that, "kwefuga". This word mean self-governing, can also mean independence
> > >(obwetwaze), unfortunately this dual translation has been advantagiouly used
> > >by the ditractors of buganda demands that buganda is seeking a special
> > >status or wants to secede.
> > >
> > >I you analytically look at the insistance of the demand for "ebyaffe" even
> > >after the "kabaka" has been re-enthroned, you could see that this demand is
> > >deeply embadded in federalism(self-governing). The baganda want this
> > >self-governing to protect their culture, take care of their social and
> > >economic issues, to control their own destiny. What is wrong, if every
> > >ethnic region is self-governing or a number of ethnic groups federate
> > >together? What many people do not know is that buganda itself is made up of
> > >many small ethnic groups.
> > >
> > & gt;There are things that can be well accomplished as a community, as a society
> > >and as a nation. The central government will not take care of the
> > >community needs as a priority, state issues are a priority to the central
> > >government. Cultural, social and economical development issues can be well
> > >handled by regional government in a federal setting.
> > >
> > >In the present setting, a Munyakore/Muganda/Musoga is sent as RDC to Arua in
> > >a community he does not understand, culturally, socially and economically;
> > >that is what I would call pushing or shoving leadership in one's face.
> > >
> > >Jesse.
> > >
> > >
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