mw. Musamize:
Your wishes for an Oryema empire is misplaced. You are referring to your
own suggestion: "Let the Luos or the batoro regroup" then federate. In
response this is what i said "If the Luos were to regroup based on leniage
and family tree or gene mapping, they will have to go all the way to Kisumu
and meet Odinga's family to secure some of the original Luo DNA for
the proposed East Africa Luo dynasty. That would be a hell of work, I
concluded. Which meant, it is not worth the effort! Then I went on to say,
my vision of a federation is not based on tribal mark as is being propagated
by Buganda and Baganda, but on geography. By incedence of history, what we
call northern Uganda is comprised of Lugbara, Kakwa, Madi, Okebo, Alur,
Lendu, Lango and Acholi. If we were to federate according to tribes, as
federo is preaching, we will have 8 states in northern Uganda alone. If that
were to be the case, there would be a gypsy state in every European
country.
Federalism as currently being propagated by the federo group is nothing
more than "ntondo". It is a homeland based on tribe not a political system.
i would also like to point out that my difference with you is not because
you come from Southern Uganda and i come from the north, I couldn't care
less. It is because we differ on how uganda should be governed and what it
would take to make good use of what we got on the night of October 9th,
1962. My vision of a federated Uganda will include the protection of what we
got that night. If it means it is just the north keeping that night as the
most important night in our country's history, so be it!
Oryema
>From: musamize
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC:
[email protected]>Subject: RE: [FedsNet] RE: Where do we go from
here? - UPC's Plan
>Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:36:17 -0700
(PDT)
>
>Mr. Oryema,
>
>I wish you well in your
empire bulding schemes. And while you have not solicited my opinion, I'll
give you one anyway.
>
>In the creation of the Nile or Greater
Luo Republic, you might have more success if you started by amalgamating the
Luo's in Uganda. If that scheme is successful, I am sure you'll soon have
other Luos begging for permission to be allowed to join you in
paradise.
>
>Good luck on your quest! When does it
begin?
>
>Oryema Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>Mw. Musamize:
>
>You write: "or
the Luos could form a single entity, the Banyakitara another, etc that can
then federate".
>
>The regional arrangement we
envisage in the north would not be based on tribal identity nor cultural
trait as you envisage for Buganda. If the Luos were to regroup for example,
and call for a Luo nation, they would have to talk to the Kenyans
so that they can free Kisumu and send Jaramogi Odinga Odinga back to Kitgum.
We will have to talk to the Tanzanians so that they can send back the Luos
living in Mwanza along the shores of Lake Victoria. We will have to talk to
the Congolese so that they can free Bunia, Mahagi etc so that the Alurs and
Lendus living there can return to Pakwach. That is a hell of headache to
deal with.
>
>Self-rule in the north will be based on geography
not tribe, so that the Kakwa, Lugbara, Alur, Acholi and Langi do not have to
find a new place to move to. The Baganda, if there are any in the north will
not be told to return to Kyadondo or Katikamu if they are comfortable eating
"akalo" (millet) and freely dancing larakaraka in Peche stadium (Gulu) or
Adungu in Nebbi. Suprisingly, though, there are more Baganda in Boston
outside Buganda than there are in any other parts of Uganda! So that is not
our worry, what to do with Baganda in the north. A second thought, however,
will have to be given to the "Batera embudu" who are illegally living in the
north.
>
>So Mw. Musamize, the question of the northeners moving
back north is no longer if, but when. We have had enough of each other
politically. Time to call it
quits!
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: musamize
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >CC:
[email protected]>
>Subject: [FedsNet] RE: Where do we go from here? - UPC's Plan
>
>Date: Fri, 22 J ul 2005 15:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
> >
>
>Mr. Oryema:
> >
> >I think you are the one shoving
unitarism on us, the Baganda. We don't want it for the simple reason that it
compromises our cultural autonomy, among other things. And the
srife we have all endured and experienced for the last 40 years is proof
enough that unitarism doesn't work. Yestersday it was the Baganda, today it
is the Acholi, tomorrow it may be the Ateso, or Lugbara, or
whomever. Clearly we are in a stalemate.
> >
>
>Federalism offers a solution that can result into peaceful co-existence,
and in a single nation.
> >
> >If the rest of Uganda want
unitarism, there is a solution: it can combine into a single entity, and
then federate with us who want to preserve out Kingdom(s). or the Luos could
form a single entity, the Banyakitara another, etc that can then federate.
That way everybody gets what they want: we do not impose on you , and you do
not impose on us. This is a solution that works in several European
countries, N. America, Australia, etc. It can work in Uganda too. Tiny
countries in Africa already exist: Lesotho, Cape Verde, Seychelles, Burundi,
etc.
> >
> >The alternative is that,we, the Baganda leave
Uganda and you can do whatever you want with it. You cannot hold us by
force, anymore than we can you -- and we do not even want to. If
at some point we discover that we cannot do with out you and that it was a
mistake to leave in the first place we shall come back, "humbled", and beg
you please let us back in, etc. But, we have the right to make that
mistake.
> >
> >The Czhecks & Slavs have done it,
Yugoslavia has done it, the Stans in the former USSR have done it, etc, and
others will do it. Believe me you, the sun will still rise and
set, and rains will still fall from the heavens. We too can do it.
Peacefully.
> >
> > ;Fair enough?
> >
>
>Oryema Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>
>Jesse:
> >
> >I hear you. The purpose of and
pricinples behind Uganda's struggle for indepedence was not to build upon
the colonial policies of divide and rule and most of all not to erect an
apartheid system in the country. Therefore, it was natural for our leaders
who brought political indepedence to do so under the theme of "One nation,
One people". There had to be a rallying point in order to battle
colonialism. To this day, we still blame colonialism (British) for their
policy of divide and rule.
> >
> >If Obote had said to the
Baganda keep yours and we other Ugandans shall keep ours, it
would have defeated the purpose of our indepedence struggle.
>
>
> >If after 40 years of indepedence, it has now dawn upon
Baganda, to demand for their ebyaffe, which they claim, it is the Kingdom
and the land in Bugan da, they are free to declare indepedence and go their
way. And maybe other Ugandans will follow their example and do the same.
Someone has to break the ice.
> >
> >
> >Eritea
did not want to be part of Ethiopia. They fought for 30 years and won their
freedom. After living on their own for more than a decade and discovered how
hard it is, they now want back in again, and Ethiopia is saying no! Maybe
once Baganda have lived on their own and discovered that the 'Byaffe they
wanted is not enough, they will be hambled and learn to share and co-exist
happily ever after!
> >
> >The ball is in your court. If
you want a referee, I will be more than happy to preside!
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jesse
Busuulwa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >Subject: RE: [Northernlightnet] RE: [FedsNet] RE: [W here do we go
from here? - UPC's Plan
> > >Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:40:31
+0000
> > >
> > >Mr. Oryema,
> >
>
> > >I totally disagree with you when you say that ;
"Ugandans, I am sure, will
> > >have no trouble respecting
Baganda's wish to retain their cultural
> > >leadership as long
as it is not pushed in their face all the time".
> > >
>
> >Mr. Oryema, if I may ask, who is doing the pushing? If
the Baganda are
> > >asking for what belongs to them, don't they
have the right to ask, like any
> > >other
Ugandan? In doing so, are they forcing anyone to belong to
their
> > >culture or pay loyality to their king?
> >
>
> > >Remember that, Buganda was forced to abandon its
loyality to their King in
> > >1966, what do you call
that? And who was doing the pushing
then? Wasn't
> > >it that, the others were pushing
their interests in buganda face? As
> >
>someone has already pointed out, since independence a part from a very
short
> > >period, there has not been a Muganda leader to do any
pushing as you want us
> > >to believe; but all
leaders from other regions, have been working very hard
> > >as
if in a cohort, to distroy the buganda culture and its leadership.
>
> >
> > >I did not think that the demand
for "ebyaffe", included having a Muganda
> > >King
for the whole country. If so, then you are right Mr.
Oryema and am
> > >sorry I was led to believe otherwise.
>
> >
> > >I just hope that, all those who don't understand
the buganda culture, should
> > >let it be. What the
baganda are looking for is very simple, to be left
> >
>alone to ran their own cultural affairs without being told
how. We welcome
> > >ideas like any other progressive
society but these ideas should not be the
> > >foundations of
our culture or commanded.
> > >
> > >I have began to
wonder, whether the respect we give to our culture has
> >
>become so annoying and painful to others, that at times it is mistaken
for
> > >"shoving/pushing" it in other people'sr
faces. It is understandable and I
> > >don't have an
answer for that. But tell you what, if you have
something
> > >you love so much, dont you talk about it, show it
off, be proud of it? And
> > >if it is taken away
from you, don't you cry for it, demand for it. And if
>
> >returned, don't you want to assume full control over it and ma ke
sure it
> > >wont be taken away again?
> > >
>
> >The different nations in Uganda, Bunyoro, Tooro, Busoga, and
Ankore, and
> > >others paid their loyalities to different
cultural leadership (kings and
> > >chiefs). This
does not mean that they did'nt belong to the nation Uganda
> >
>before their Kings/chiefs were abolished. The difference with
Buganda is
> > >that they have been couragious enough to demand
for what they believed to be
> > >theirs. When the
buganda cultural leadership was reinstated other regions
> >
>followed queue in their demands. If this was a bad move, why
do other
> > >regions follow buganda?
> > >
>
> >We can still live in Uganda as one, with our cultural
differences. What
> > >makes us one is the respect
for one another and each others beliefs. The
>
> >abundance of and the richness in our cultures, is what made/makes
Uganda the
> > >perl and tick, and this should make every
Ugandan proud.
> > >
> > >Federalism is the only way
that can bring people of difference ethnicity to
> > >respect
each other as Ugandans at the same time, be able to take control of
>
> >their own cultural, social and economical issues.
> >
>
> > >This brings me to the real meaning of
"ebyaffe". In demanding "ebyaffe",
> > >apart from
the 9000 mls of land and the cultural leadership, the baganda are
>
> >demanding for true federalism, which is "self
governing". If a peasant, in
> > >Nakaseke is asked
what federalism means, he/she will tell you in one word
> >
>that, "kwefuga". This word mean self-governing, can also mean
independence
> > >(obwetwaze), unfortunately this dual
translation has been advantagiouly used
> > >by the ditractors
of buganda demands that buganda is seeking a special
> > >status
or wants to secede.
> > >
> > >I you analytically
look at the insistance of the demand for "ebyaffe" even
>
> >after the "kabaka" has been re-enthroned, you could see
that this demand is
> > >deeply embadded in
federalism(self-governing). The baganda want this
> >
>self-governing to protect their culture, take care of their social
and
> > >economic issues, to control their own
destiny. What is wrong, if every
> > >ethnic region
is self-governing or a number of ethnic groups federate
> >
>together? What many people do not know is that buganda itself
is made up of
> > >many small ethnic groups.
> >
>
> > & gt;There are things that can be well accomplished as
a community, as a society
> > >and as a nation. The
central government will not take care of the
> > >community
needs as a priority, state issues are a priority to the
central
> > >government. Cultural, social and
economical development issues can be well
> > >handled by
regional government in a federal setting.
> > >
> >
>In the present setting, a Munyakore/Muganda/Musoga is sent as RDC to
Arua in
> > >a community he does not understand, culturally,
socially and economically;
> > >that is what I would call
pushing or shoving leadership in one's face.
> >
>
> > >Jesse.
> > >
> >
>
