>From glasnost paper, they sad that when they required people to open ports, >they got 50 people world wide using their software... Once they lowered that >bar, they got 350k. I guess we better find a better solution soon, as Zubair >suggested, or our project will be born dead.
On Jun 15, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Zubair Nabi wrote: > Hey Alan, > > Yeah I agree. Opening so many ports will demotivate people. But what other > options do we have? We need to come up with a solution soon. > > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Zhongjie Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Zubair, >> That's a fancy way to detect service differentiating. So I guess our >> testing flows will >> have different payloads, and against different port numbers, right? >> It's a higher requirement to the super peer. It will open lots of >> ports on user's computer. >> So maybe some user will dislike it. They will feel it like a risk, will >> cause their computer unsafety. >> If so, we need to let user choose whether they are willing to be a >> super agent. I guess >> most of them will choose no... and we need to think about how to motivate >> them to be super peers. >> Another way is deploying some target servers for testing. A drawback >> is that they may be blocked. >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Zubair Nabi <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> I think we can use the aggregator to reduce false positives. If an agent >>> experiences blockage or throttling while connecting to a super peer based >>> on >>> a service protocol, it can then try to repeat the test with the >>> aggregator. >>> If the results of both the super peer and aggregator tests match then the >>> result should be reported, otherwise it will marked as a false positive. >>> >>> Alan, Diogo, Luis, any thoughts? >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Adriano Monteiro Marques < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 14, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Zubair Nabi wrote: >>>> >>>>> I completely agree. >>>>> >>>>> For the ICM we're interested in two types of service differentiation: >>> 1) >>>>> Blockage, 2) Throttling. >>>>> Instead of measurement at the server end, in our case the measurement >>>> would >>>>> be at the client but we still need a server like entity with which the >>>> agent >>>>> can establish a TCP connection and start 2 flows. These 2 flows would >>> be >>>>> identical to the ones described in the paper. But this would be our >>>>> measurement metric: >>>>> 1) Blockage >>>>> If Flow 1 fails but Flow 2 goes through then Flow 1 (which represents >>> a >>>>> service) is being blocked. >>>>> 2) Throttling >>>>> If the throughput (or goodput) of Flow 2 is greater than Flow 1, then >>>> Flow 1 >>>>> is being throttled. >>>>> >>>>> These server like entities in case of the ICM can be one of the 3 >>> options >>>>> that I described earlier, i.e. 1) The super peers, 2) Server code >>> hosted >>>> on >>>>> M-Lab like platforms, 3) Existing Glasnost servers. >>>>> To have maximum control over the entire set-up, using the super peer >>> as a >>>>> server would be our best option. Mind you, as a server the super peer >>>>> wouldn't have to do anything special like measurement or anything; The >>>>> server would just respond to the agents TCP packets based on the >>>> protocol. >>>>> Nothing more. >>>> >>>> It must be the super peers, then. Otherwise, it would be too easy for >>> ISPs >>>> to block them. We can also have the aggregator to do some part of the >>> deal. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> To achieve optimum load balancing, a server should be assigned to an >>>> agent >>>>> by the aggregator during the register_peer phase. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Adriano Monteiro Marques < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Zubair, >>>>>> >>>>>> Very nice finding! >>>>>> >>>>>> I read the paper, and I found it very nice their description of how >>>> traffic >>>>>> differentiation can occur. This is something we must know by heart. >>>>>> Another thing, was the first condition of having a very low barrier >>> for >>>>>> use. This is pretty much what we want to achieve with ICM too: we >>> don't >>>> want >>>>>> any users to need to setup any rules in their routers or firewalls in >>>> order >>>>>> to get this system to work. What I didn't like in it, though, was >>> that >>>> it >>>>>> relies heavily on measurement servers, and what we really want is to >>>> have >>>>>> the measurement to take place in the client without external help. >>> I'm >>>> not >>>>>> sure on what you're suggesting at the end when you say that we could >>> use >>>>>> super peers, m-lab like platforms or existing glasnost servers. Could >>>> you >>>>>> explain it further? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:09 PM, Zubair Nabi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> According to my timeline, this week I'm supposed to implement the >>>> services >>>>>> connectivity sub-module. I've spent the entire day looking into >>>> different >>>>>> services and their protocols etc. I also looked into existing >>> mechanisms >>>> and >>>>>> came across something interesting and directly relevant to our work. >>>> It's >>>>>> called Glasnost. Basically, it has a client/server architecture based >>> on >>>>>> flows to detect "differentiation" of different kinds of traffic by >>> ISPs. >>>>>> Differentiation is an umbrella term for blocking, throttling etc. >>> Here's >>>> the >>>>>> project website: >>> http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/glasnost.phpand >>>>>> here's a link to a research paper about the system: >>>>>> >>> http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/results/10_nsdi_glasnost.pdf >>>>>> The paper is a must read for everyone involved in the ICM project. >>> Other >>>>>> than the mechanism, it has some very nice design considerations that >>> we >>>>>> should follow as well. >>>>>> In a nutshell, if we want to check if BitTorrent is being >>>> differentiated, >>>>>> we would start two TCP flows to a server from the user client. One >>> flow >>>>>> would have BitTorrent headers and content in the payload while the >>>> second >>>>>> (sent after an offset interval) would have random bytes in the >>> payload. >>>> We >>>>>> would run both flows for X time for the protocol to stabilize. If >>>> there's a >>>>>> problem with Flow 1 and not Flow 2 then that would mean that Flow 1 >>> is >>>> being >>>>>> differentiated. This can also be used to check if there's any >>> throttling >>>> of >>>>>> Flow 1 as compared to Flow 2. One important point that they make is >>> that >>>>>> port number is not the only parameter that ISPs use to differentiate >>>>>> services, in fact ISPs also employ techniques based on the content >>> and >>>>>> protocol behaviour to find out the type of the service. This is >>>> something >>>>>> that we should consider as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, this is what I propose. We should use the same mechanism for our >>>>>> service connectivity tests. But that leads to a architectural >>> question. >>>> What >>>>>> would the measurement servers be in our case. Well that's something >>> that >>>> we >>>>>> need to decide. I think we have three options for the measurement >>>> servers: >>>>>> 1) The super peers, 2) Server code hosted on M-Lab like platforms, 3) >>>>>> Existing Glasnost servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you guys think? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> __ >>>>>> Zubair >>>>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content >>>>>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image >>>>>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev_______________________________________________ >>>>>> Umit-devel mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-devel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Adriano Monteiro Marques >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.thoughtspad.com >>>>>> http://www.umitproject.org >>>>>> http://blog.umitproject.org >>>>>> http://www.pythonbenelux.org >>>>>> >>>>>> "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best, >>>>> __ >>>>> Zubair >>>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content >>>>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image >>>>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Umit-gsoc mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Adriano Monteiro Marques >>>> >>>> http://www.thoughtspad.com >>>> http://www.umitproject.org >>>> http://blog.umitproject.org >>>> http://www.pythonbenelux.org >>>> >>>> "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best, >>> __ >>> Zubair >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content >>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image >>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Umit-gsoc mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zhongjie Wang >> Master Candidate >> Computer System Architecture >> Peking University, China >> > > > > -- > Best, > __ > Zubair > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content > authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image > Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Umit-gsoc mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc --- Adriano Monteiro Marques http://www.thoughtspad.com http://www.umitproject.org http://blog.umitproject.org "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Umit-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-devel
