Hi Zubair,
On Jun 16, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Zubair Nabi wrote:
> Can't we use something like m-lab or planet lab to deploy. We can using to
> mask the fact that we're routing to m-lab or planet lab.
Not sure I got what you meant here...
Anyways, on integrating with m-lab, planet lab or glasnost I think that it is
fine, as long as we can survive *WITHOUT* them. Remember, our major goal is to
be independent. So I would first pursue our own way being independent, and then
later write code that would make use of those extra servers.
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Adriano Marques <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> From glasnost paper, they sad that when they required people to open ports,
> they got 50 people world wide using their software... Once they lowered that
> bar, they got 350k. I guess we better find a better solution soon, as Zubair
> suggested, or our project will be born dead.
>
>
> On Jun 15, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Zubair Nabi wrote:
>
> > Hey Alan,
> >
> > Yeah I agree. Opening so many ports will demotivate people. But what other
> > options do we have? We need to come up with a solution soon.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Zhongjie Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Zubair,
> >> That's a fancy way to detect service differentiating. So I guess our
> >> testing flows will
> >> have different payloads, and against different port numbers, right?
> >> It's a higher requirement to the super peer. It will open lots of
> >> ports on user's computer.
> >> So maybe some user will dislike it. They will feel it like a risk, will
> >> cause their computer unsafety.
> >> If so, we need to let user choose whether they are willing to be a
> >> super agent. I guess
> >> most of them will choose no... and we need to think about how to motivate
> >> them to be super peers.
> >> Another way is deploying some target servers for testing. A drawback
> >> is that they may be blocked.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Zubair Nabi
> >> <[email protected]>wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think we can use the aggregator to reduce false positives. If an agent
> >>> experiences blockage or throttling while connecting to a super peer based
> >>> on
> >>> a service protocol, it can then try to repeat the test with the
> >>> aggregator.
> >>> If the results of both the super peer and aggregator tests match then the
> >>> result should be reported, otherwise it will marked as a false positive.
> >>>
> >>> Alan, Diogo, Luis, any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Adriano Monteiro Marques <
> >>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 14, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Zubair Nabi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I completely agree.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the ICM we're interested in two types of service differentiation:
> >>> 1)
> >>>>> Blockage, 2) Throttling.
> >>>>> Instead of measurement at the server end, in our case the measurement
> >>>> would
> >>>>> be at the client but we still need a server like entity with which the
> >>>> agent
> >>>>> can establish a TCP connection and start 2 flows. These 2 flows would
> >>> be
> >>>>> identical to the ones described in the paper. But this would be our
> >>>>> measurement metric:
> >>>>> 1) Blockage
> >>>>> If Flow 1 fails but Flow 2 goes through then Flow 1 (which represents
> >>> a
> >>>>> service) is being blocked.
> >>>>> 2) Throttling
> >>>>> If the throughput (or goodput) of Flow 2 is greater than Flow 1, then
> >>>> Flow 1
> >>>>> is being throttled.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These server like entities in case of the ICM can be one of the 3
> >>> options
> >>>>> that I described earlier, i.e. 1) The super peers, 2) Server code
> >>> hosted
> >>>> on
> >>>>> M-Lab like platforms, 3) Existing Glasnost servers.
> >>>>> To have maximum control over the entire set-up, using the super peer
> >>> as a
> >>>>> server would be our best option. Mind you, as a server the super peer
> >>>>> wouldn't have to do anything special like measurement or anything; The
> >>>>> server would just respond to the agents TCP packets based on the
> >>>> protocol.
> >>>>> Nothing more.
> >>>>
> >>>> It must be the super peers, then. Otherwise, it would be too easy for
> >>> ISPs
> >>>> to block them. We can also have the aggregator to do some part of the
> >>> deal.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To achieve optimum load balancing, a server should be assigned to an
> >>>> agent
> >>>>> by the aggregator during the register_peer phase.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:09 AM, Adriano Monteiro Marques <
> >>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Zubair,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very nice finding!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I read the paper, and I found it very nice their description of how
> >>>> traffic
> >>>>>> differentiation can occur. This is something we must know by heart.
> >>>>>> Another thing, was the first condition of having a very low barrier
> >>> for
> >>>>>> use. This is pretty much what we want to achieve with ICM too: we
> >>> don't
> >>>> want
> >>>>>> any users to need to setup any rules in their routers or firewalls in
> >>>> order
> >>>>>> to get this system to work. What I didn't like in it, though, was
> >>> that
> >>>> it
> >>>>>> relies heavily on measurement servers, and what we really want is to
> >>>> have
> >>>>>> the measurement to take place in the client without external help.
> >>> I'm
> >>>> not
> >>>>>> sure on what you're suggesting at the end when you say that we could
> >>> use
> >>>>>> super peers, m-lab like platforms or existing glasnost servers. Could
> >>>> you
> >>>>>> explain it further?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 13, 2011, at 6:09 PM, Zubair Nabi wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> According to my timeline, this week I'm supposed to implement the
> >>>> services
> >>>>>> connectivity sub-module. I've spent the entire day looking into
> >>>> different
> >>>>>> services and their protocols etc. I also looked into existing
> >>> mechanisms
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> came across something interesting and directly relevant to our work.
> >>>> It's
> >>>>>> called Glasnost. Basically, it has a client/server architecture based
> >>> on
> >>>>>> flows to detect "differentiation" of different kinds of traffic by
> >>> ISPs.
> >>>>>> Differentiation is an umbrella term for blocking, throttling etc.
> >>> Here's
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> project website:
> >>> http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/glasnost.phpand
> >>>>>> here's a link to a research paper about the system:
> >>>>>>
> >>> http://broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparency/results/10_nsdi_glasnost.pdf
> >>>>>> The paper is a must read for everyone involved in the ICM project.
> >>> Other
> >>>>>> than the mechanism, it has some very nice design considerations that
> >>> we
> >>>>>> should follow as well.
> >>>>>> In a nutshell, if we want to check if BitTorrent is being
> >>>> differentiated,
> >>>>>> we would start two TCP flows to a server from the user client. One
> >>> flow
> >>>>>> would have BitTorrent headers and content in the payload while the
> >>>> second
> >>>>>> (sent after an offset interval) would have random bytes in the
> >>> payload.
> >>>> We
> >>>>>> would run both flows for X time for the protocol to stabilize. If
> >>>> there's a
> >>>>>> problem with Flow 1 and not Flow 2 then that would mean that Flow 1
> >>> is
> >>>> being
> >>>>>> differentiated. This can also be used to check if there's any
> >>> throttling
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> Flow 1 as compared to Flow 2. One important point that they make is
> >>> that
> >>>>>> port number is not the only parameter that ISPs use to differentiate
> >>>>>> services, in fact ISPs also employ techniques based on the content
> >>> and
> >>>>>> protocol behaviour to find out the type of the service. This is
> >>>> something
> >>>>>> that we should consider as well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, this is what I propose. We should use the same mechanism for our
> >>>>>> service connectivity tests. But that leads to a architectural
> >>> question.
> >>>> What
> >>>>>> would the measurement servers be in our case. Well that's something
> >>> that
> >>>> we
> >>>>>> need to decide. I think we have three options for the measurement
> >>>> servers:
> >>>>>> 1) The super peers, 2) Server code hosted on M-Lab like platforms, 3)
> >>>>>> Existing Glasnost servers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What do you guys think?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>> __
> >>>>>> Zubair
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev_______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Umit-devel mailing list
> >>>>>> [email protected]
> >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-devel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---
> >>>>>> Adriano Monteiro Marques
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.thoughtspad.com
> >>>>>> http://www.umitproject.org
> >>>>>> http://blog.umitproject.org
> >>>>>> http://www.pythonbenelux.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> __
> >>>>> Zubair
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> >>>>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> >>>>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Umit-gsoc mailing list
> >>>>> [email protected]
> >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
> >>>> Adriano Monteiro Marques
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.thoughtspad.com
> >>>> http://www.umitproject.org
> >>>> http://blog.umitproject.org
> >>>> http://www.pythonbenelux.org
> >>>>
> >>>> "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Best,
> >>> __
> >>> Zubair
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> >>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> >>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Umit-gsoc mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zhongjie Wang
> >> Master Candidate
> >> Computer System Architecture
> >> Peking University, China
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best,
> > __
> > Zubair
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> > authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> > Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Umit-gsoc mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-gsoc
>
> ---
> Adriano Monteiro Marques
>
> http://www.thoughtspad.com
> http://www.umitproject.org
> http://blog.umitproject.org
>
> "Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best,
> __
> Zubair
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
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> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev_______________________________________________
> Umit-devel mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/umit-devel
---
Adriano Monteiro Marques
http://www.thoughtspad.com
http://www.umitproject.org
http://blog.umitproject.org
"Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed." - George Burns
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