Dave, I have neither posted any conspiracy theory but posed a simple question:
If people moving to the area were looking for a neighborhood forum and they saw one with upenn.edu as part of its address, wouldn¹t they assume this group could be associated with the university? It seems that Mike feels the average person is not gullible enough to think that would give a listserv a certain amount of greater credibility just because upenn.edu is in the address. As for the ³wild-eyed street corner preacher remark² as you were responding to Dave¹s reply to me, was not in the high standard of taste and propriety those who formed the new list obviously adhere to and was uncalled for. Don¹t let me dazzle you any facts that seeing upenn.edu in any correspondence would call to mind of the person reading it, the University of Pennsylvania. I would request that you show me any number of places using the domain, upenn.edu NOT affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania that people could ostensibly take to be another entity. On 7/30/07 11:54 AM, "Mike V." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dave, they've got a perfectly good wild-eyed streetcorner preacher conspiracy > theory going. Why burst their bubble with your clever "facts" and "logics"? > THE END IS NIGH! WOE TO YOU O EARTH AND DOG BOWL, FOR THE DEVIL SENDS THE > PENN BEAST WITH WRATH! > > - Mike V. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> On Behalf Of Dave Axler >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:12 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list >> >> >> Wilma, >> >> The answer to your first question can only come from Kyle, not me. >> >> However, I have used discussion groups based at both Yahoo and MySpace, and >> can state from experience that they do have disadvantages: Most notably, >> there are too many advertisements, both on the listserv/group pages >> themselves, and in email one receives as a side effect of joining the group. >> Yahoo is especially notorious for the latter -- one has to locate the special >> "preferences" page and manually opt out of receiving such mail. I suspect, >> but don't know for certain, that Google-based groups also involve >> advertisements. >> >> >> As for the second question, I think it is based on two false assumptions: >> 1) Penn is "sponsoring" the new group. >> Providing host services is not sponsorship, regardless of whether the >> group is hosted on Penn's servers, or Yahoo's, or Google's, or an old Mac >> 8100 sitting in somebody's basement. To claim otherwise is analogous to >> holding the phone company responsible for what people say when they make >> calls. >> 2) A group hosted by Penn is more credible than one hosted elsewhere. >> I don't think groups as a whole are "credible". What matters to me is the >> credibility of individual posters based on what they say and how well those >> statements agree with my own knowledge and understanding of the world. Would >> your words, or mine, or anyone else's really become more credible because >> they were posted on a discussion group that happened to be on a UPenn >> server? I don't think anyone here -- including those with whom I sometimes >> disagree -- is that foolish and/or gullible, and I don't think new neighbors >> would be, either. >> >> --dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: Dave Axler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity listserv <[email protected]> >> Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 7:21 am >> Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list >> >> >> True enough. If I could set up a listserv on any of the servers mentioned >> (Google, MySpace, Yahoo) by you and Andy, why didn¹t Kyle? >> >> Having a ³community listserv¹ with a upenn sponsored URL would lend more >> weight and credibility than one set up at purple.com or yahoo or myspace, >> wouldn¹t it? >> >> I were a new resident to University City and wanted to go online with >> neighbors, I certainly would think so. >> >> >> On 7/30/07 1:36 AM, "Dave Axler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> Yep, and you can get similar free services from Yahoo, AOL, MySpace, and a >>> variety of other places. >>> The exact features vary from host to host -- some let you make files and/or >>> pictures available, some >>> offer public calendar features for group events, all have some variations >>> on how the messages are >>> moderated (if at all) -- but the location of an ISP is, for a discussion >>> list, generally not a sign of who >>> "owns" and/or "controls" it. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Andrew Diller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Cc: Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; UnivCity listserv >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 8:08 pm >>> Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list >>> >>> You can pretty much do it yourself, for free at Google. Google calls >>> listservs "groups." >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/ >>> >>> >>> -andy diller >>> >>> Wilma de Soto wrote: >>>> > I see. How much is Kyle having to pay Penn to get them to host his >>>> server >>>> > and lend him an IP address? >>>>> > > Would I be able to do the same if I pay them to host a server for me >>>>> and >>>> > loan me an IP address? Who gets to do this? Must one be directly >>>> > affiliated with the University or have someone who IS affiliated do it >>>> for >>>> > you? >>>>>> > > > On 7/29/07 7:32 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >> Thanks, Andy. Nice to read hard facts on UC-list this evening. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Based on your experience, what sort of control do you think the Pope, >>>>> or >>>>> >> the Franciscan Order, or Villanova Univ. exercises over the content of >>>>> >> this unmoderated UC-list, based on the mere fact of its mechanical >>>>> >> address? Suppose the list became moderated instead -- how would that >>>>> >> change the influence that Main Line Roman Catholicism now wields over >>>>> >> UC-list as we know it? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- Tony West >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Andrew Diller wrote: >>>>>> >>> If I may---- Actually, there is institutional affiliation: >>>>>> Villanova! >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> For some context, there are two things you need to know about any >>>>>> >>> computer on the Internet: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> 1. who hold the DNS records for that domain >>>>>> >>> 2. where is the IP address of the server located? (what ISP?) >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Only large institutions (penn, apple, comcast) 'own' the blocks of IP >>>>>> >>> addresses that each computer must have to participate on the >>>>>> Internet. >>>>>> >>> When you pay one of these people to host your server, they lend you >>>>>> an >>>>>> >>> IP address. You then map a name (list.purple.com) to that particular >>>>>> >>> ip address, and then people can use your server. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> People don't find it easy to type in numbers like 153.104.63.228 all >>>>>> >>> the time, so other smart people invented DNS (the Domain Name >>>>>> system). >>>>>> >>> Almost every IP address has a DNS name mapped to it to make it easy >>>>>> >>> for people to use. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> So using DNS, we can address things like email to list.purple.com >>>>>> >>> (which is a particular computer) instead of it's IP address, which is >>>>>> >>> 153.104.63.228. Both those point to the same thing. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> So, to answer #1, it looks like Villanova holds the DNS records for >>>>>> >>> purple. So it is safe to say that there _is_ an institutional >>>>>> >>> affiliation for purple. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Here is the record for it's DNS: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >>>>>> >>> ;purple.com. IN A >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >>>>>> >>> purple.com. 6716 IN SOA >>>>>> ftp.ece.villanova.edu <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> >>>>>> <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> . >>>>>> >>> root.ftp.ece.villanova.edu <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> >>>>>> <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> . 2006061100 43200 14400 3600000 259200 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ;; Query time: 10 msec >>>>>> >>> ;; SERVER: 207.245.82.2#53(207.245.82.2) >>>>>> >>> ;; WHEN: Sun Jul 29 19:08:36 2007 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> And here is a GEO lookup for the actual list.purple.com computer: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> The IP 153.104.63.228 is located in: >>>>>> >>> Country: United States (US) >>>>>> >>> Region: PA >>>>>> >>> City: Villanova >>>>>> >>> Latitude: 40.0369 >>>>>> >>> Longitude: -75.3486 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> (http://www.websitegoodies.com/tools/geoip.php) >>>>>> <http://www.websitegoodies.com/tools/geoip.php%29> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> So, there you are. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -andy diller >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ---- >>>>> >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >>>>> >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >>>>> >> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >>>>>> > > > ---- >>>> > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >>>> > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >>>> > <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >>> ---- >>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >>> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >>> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >>> >>> >>> >>> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >>> from AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> . >>> >> >> >> >> >> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from >> AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> . >
