I have to respectfully decline joining this list for a number of reasons,
but my primary one is this:
While Melani claims that there would be "civilized" conversation, what I
fear it will actually be is "sanitized" conversation.
While it's true that many unpleasant things get said on this list, that has
been a two-way street. The people claiming to be victims give as good as
they get, and just as often send inflammatory posts themselves: remember
"Serial Liar sends misleading information"? How about "cheap", "greedy",
"slumlords", "Napoleon complex" "frugal" "fanatic"? A poster in this
current thread, Phillip Forrest, sent an ugly post that suggested that,
rather than his own use of the delete key, Glenn should kill himself, but
somehow that was not viewed as being part of the problem. Isn't sending
information as a front for UCD just as "misleading"? Couldn't the organized
effort to enact the BID with carefully planted information be just as
easily labeled a "conspiracy"?
What I see as a problem is how will "uncivilized" be defined on the new
list. To me it seems that much of what is being claimed is uncivilized is
often a disagreement with the ideas being expressed. I make no secret of
the fact that I don't agree with the BID or with what I view as Penn and its
supporters having an undue hand in the direction of this neighborhood. That
is an unpopular view among those who want Penn's involvement or who make
huge business profits because of it. I have not been attacked on the
listserv for my opinoins, but I have already been shunned in person for
taking that stance.
My question is this: What is meant by "cilvilized" an "uncivilized"? Is
this REALLY a concern about the tone, or is there also a concern about the
ideas expressed? Would I be banned for posting things critical of UCD?
Or for defending John Fenton (the post-Malcolm X Park John Fenton, not the
pre-Malcolm X Park John Fenton). Or will the new list be a forum wherein
like-minded people can get together and make unchallenged claiims? Would
Phillip Forrest's ugly suggestion that Glenn kill himself get Phillip
banned?
Karen Allen
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected]
Subject: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION Re: [UC] Since the
real reason for the new list is...
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:28:22 EDT
In a message dated 7/30/07 11:45:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ......Kyle didn't start the UCNeighbor list because he was being
> childish or selfish and walking away with his bat and ball. He started
it because
> the communication on this listserv is becoming petty, myopic and
insulting.
> It's also becoming a crowded room (virtually speaking) with some loud
voices
> trying to drown out the once speaking in a normal tone. Some people do
act
> like they own this list and like to think that they can dictate and
frame the
> conversation and debates that occur here. Many people have started doing
the
> serial deleting of [UC]-labelled emails, because it's become less
relevant and
> helpful to the average UC resident. I don't know about you, but this
puts
> people a hair-trigger away from leaving the listserv and the community
> discussion that occurs here. No one is excluded or protected on Kyle's
new listserv
> either. You can still take the conversation there, if you want to, and
your bat
> and ball.
>
> This weekend, the heavy-handed people on the purple list found out that
their
readers now have the option to move away, and clearly, they don't want that
to happen. So - did they offer to moderate their language and help
develop a
set of guidelines? No, they became even more heavy-handed! Several
attacked Bruce Anderson for suggesting guidelines. Some even tried to
blame Jon
Herrmann, who wrote that he had not read the last 13,000 emails posted on
the
purple list in the last 15 months - now, that shows how involved HE is,
doesn't
it? Some renewed conspiracy theories, one generated new spoof posts, and
as
usual, a small but noisy group attacked the person who saw a need to do
something and actually DID it.
But, why should we be stuck with a dysfunctional list which will not
change?
I came in for criticism for saying it would be heaven to be on a list
without
one particularly voluminous ranter who has focused on me, sometimes
alarmingly. Why would I want to be on a list with member who sends out
fantasy emails
about what he wants to have happen to me in Clark Park? Why would I
recommend that the buyers and sellers I work with join a listserv where
they'd read
that kind of stuff with my name in it, where a neighborhood fanatic would
single me out for ridicule though I've never even met the man? Is it any
surprise
I think it will be "heaven" to be on a list where that sort of email isn't
likely to be tolerated?
Kyle CAN ban that individual on the new list, but he won't, if the
individual
is civil to his fellow list members. Anyone can sign up, and the archives
are public, so even non members can read what's written. There's no
conspiracy and lots of transparency.
I'm afraid that "spoof" addresses have been posted more often than the
actual
one for Kyle's new list, so I'll include it again here to counteract the
usual poster of misinformation.
http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/ucneighbors
- Melani Lamond
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