Glenn, 

I can see agree with some things you¹ve said.

One thing is there were systemic problems with poor funding and educational
inequity before I became a teacher; in fact while I was a student in the
system.

However, that did not negate the responsibility my parents had to ensure:

1. That I went to school
2. That I bathed had wore clean clothes when I went to school.  We didn¹t
have an automatic washer and dryer in my house until 1970.
3. That I took care of books lent to me by the school.
4. That I wouldn¹t lose school supplies purchased by them for use in school.
5. That I would complete my homework assignments
6. That my parents knew which teachers I had for which subjects, etc.
7. That I was fed properly and put to bed at a decent hour.
8. That I was punished when I did wrong.

All of us in my neighborhood, working class neighborhood in Cobbs Creek were
expected to do the same.  Neighbors were also expected to discipline us if
we were caught to be wrongdoing.

Now the responsibility we all bear for today¹s children is to foot the bill,
take the hits for their failures and don¹t tell me or my child ANYTHING that
might suggest I or my child are not doing the right thing.  In other words,
STFU!

You cannot have it both ways; if I am paying than I have a right to praise
and criticise without fear of retaliation or worse!

I quite understand literacy problems as member of The Center For Literacy
Board of Trustees since 1990.  I also see how it begins and perpetuates
itself from the other side in public schools.

The new religion¹s First Commandment is ³Thou shalt not make me Feel Bad
About Myself².  Heaven forbid we should make any suggestions as to how to
apply oneself better while providing help.

I have students who left our school for middle school at the end of 5th
grade and are already parents by the 7th grade.  They knew better but didn¹t
want to follow any advice.

Guidance counselors are so hog-tied they are practically impotent.

You simply MUST spend some time in a public school to see what is going on.


On 6/29/08 5:15 PM, "Glenn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wilma and Liz,
> 
> It¹s easy to understand anger at parents due to the bad experiences a teacher
> might have. There is a "front-line" tension that should be acknowleged.
> 
> When the industrialist barons in the 19th and 20th centuries tried to break
> strikes and unions, they would bring in ethnic minorities and immigrants. They
> pitted the two groups against each other. Both groups had similar
> disadvantages, but the barons distracted the workers struggle away from them
> and towards each other. I¹d like to see teachers and parents join together and
> recognize systemic problems are the common enemy and not simply the other.
> 
> If Philadelphia residents considered that the systemic problems and poor
> outcomes in our poorly funded school district existed  before Wilma and the
> other current teachers were present, they might give them much greater respect
> and much less blame. I like some of the points Liz made too.
> 
> If you look at the larger group of parents, there are many reasons for family
> or parenting barriers. And it is in society¹s interest to look at education as
> a public good.  So while I can understand Wilma's frustration, if I look at
> the parents objectively, I understand the range of demands on parents and
> expect breakdowns.  Certain examples may provoke anger but so many parents are
> like the young woman highlighted in the first part of the Inq. series on
> dropouts.  (She cried when her tough decision to bring the child to
> orientation might get her kicked out creating another failure)
> 
> One common misperception in the on-line middle class community, in which
> clarification will illustrate my point about parents, is literacy proficiency.
> This is a serious silent problem. The high dropout rate has been around for a
> long time. There are large areas of the city were large numbers of citizens
> (many parents) only read at about a 5th to 7th grade reading level. (Public
> education is probably one of the great advances that led to American
> prosperity. But our society has been moving back towards medieval times with
> this literacy indicator)
> 
> These parents work jobs with low pay and no time off. A real babysitting
> problem is just one possible problem they may face daily. Their frustrations
> can easily be manipulated against teachers. .
> 
> Another point I liked from Liz, is that the kids still exist during family
> breakdowns  and still need those other things like food., vaccines, etc. This
> is not to say the homeroom teachers should provide the services. I think a big
> problem caused by under-funding is that teachers should have back up in
> several areas in which they don¹t. (I agree that schools are an incredibly
> underutilized public space and forum for intervention.  But of course that has
> nothing to do with the homeroom teachers¹ job but should be delivered as
> welcome support for the teachers and in the interest of the kids.)
> 
> If a third of Phila. schools are struggling to have a music and art teacher;
> what is the reality of funding guidance counselors, coaches etc. I don¹t think
> the teachers should be taking on so many roles without help. The availability
> of quality relationships with a range of adults (plus their services) can be
> very important when family problems emerge which can hurt the child.
> 
> Concluding, I think it is in the public interest to view all children as
> shared responsibility. I think the problems and issues for both parents and
> teachers, poor as well as middle class, are real and significant. When we
> invest in the public good the payoff is well worth it, even though the public
> good is not profitable to corporate fatcats and profitable to market
> capitalism. 
> 
> Thanks for the good discussion,
> 
> Glenn
> 
> PS:  Thank you Wilma.  I respect teaching as an art and I think Phila.
> teachers managing with the problems you face daily deserve a lot of credit!
> I'm not a parent.  I happily invest in the public good.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Wilma de  Soto <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  
>> To: Elizabeth F Campion <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  ; UnivCity  listserv
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>  
>> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:48  PM
>>  
>> Subject: [UC] Re: How are we contributing  ,, was [UC] markets in schools ...
>> (Was: Re: [ UC] Publicizing Philly  Schools)
>>  
>> 
>> Thank you for your insightful comments, Liz.
>> 
>> I  wasn¹t speaking of Œwelfare queens¹ which I consider to be a pejorative
>> term,  rather parents who have come to expect and demand that schools do
>> their job  for them.
>> 
>> What I see on the front lines are kids who are kept home two  or three days a
>> week to babysit for younger children.  One really nice  student comes to
>> mind.  His parents go off to the casino and leave him to  watch his 11 month
>> old sister.
>> 
>> Many of the parents we have are  receiving assistance which is why their
>> children are eligible for the  breakfast and lunch programs.
>> 
>> The most supportive parents are those  who come to ³Back-to-School Night².
>> Those we really need to see do not.   Turnout for these 12+ hour days is
>> usually very poor even though they  are held right across the street or
>> around the corner from where they  live.
>> 
>> Isolating children with head lice is not as easy now.  One  can send them
>> home with a note from the nurse, but if they SAY they have  treated them we
>> have to admit them.  That also goes with ringworm,  amongst other
>> communicable maladies such as the recent highly contagious  Hand-and-Mouth
>> disease.
>> 
>> Most schools do have Nurse Practitioners, just  not everyday and trust me
>> those NP¹s are really stretched thinly.  The  other two days a week the
>> School Community Coordinator handles  it.
>> 
>> Vaccines are free to poor families at Health Centers.  We  direct them to the
>> closest ones, or ones that have personnel that speak the  home language of
>> the parents.  We have the Eagle¹s Vision Van come and  kids get free
>> eyeglasses.  We had Charming Shoppes come in and give every  single, solitary
>> kid a winter coat, scarf hat, gloves a school bag and school  supplies;
>> really nice stuff!  Some of the kids lost those coats, some  lose their
>> glasses, maltreat them, break them or refuse to wear  them.
>> 
>> We do so much and it seems as if it¹s never enough and quite  often not
>> appreciated.  Neither parents or children say ³Thank You².   Some do of
>> course, but the sense of entitlement boggles the mind.   Not to mention all
>> the extra work needed to organize these  events.
>> 
>> I daresay most people on this listserv have not been inside of  a public
>> school building lately.  If my vote could do something to change  the way
>> these children are being brought up, so be it.  However, the  public cannot
>> do everything and there has to be a limit at how far people can  push the
>> envelope for services and not do anything for  themselves.
>> 
>> Before I am accused of painting all parents with a broad  brush, I am not.
>> However, people need to know what schools are really  like now.
>> 
>> Try to catch ³Hard Times at Douglas High playing on HBO now.   It¹s a good
>> documentary.
>> 
>> Wilma
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/28/08 7:56  PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The myth of the Welfare Queen is often just  a myth.   For every mother who
>>> chooses "hair extensions" over  feeding her children there are many more who
>>> are cutting their own portions  to make sure their children get 'enough'.
>>> 
>>> I see enormous  sacrifices by some of the parents delivering children to the
>>> school next to  my home.  Some walk their kids, rain or shine.  Others
>>> accompany  them, to and fro, on SEPTA, than complete their own rides to
>>> work.   
>>> 
>>> As a society we are still voting bombs as a higher priority  than child
>>> welfare.  Maybe basic "Food, Clothing and Shelter" should be
>>> 'entitlements'.  Schools make a good delivery system for food, and  could
>>> also be used to deliver the mandatory vaccines and other health  check-ups
>>> that confound so many parents living on the edge.  It would  be sooooo much
>>> easier to bring a Doctor or Nurse Practitioner to a school,  than to direct
>>> 600 families to a health center.  Maybe Schools could  run year round or
>>> maybe some practical and socially beneficial use for the  buildings could be
>>> found for the summer months.
>>> 
>>> Healthy working  parents are often overwhelmed by the demands of scheduling
>>> family   requirements.  If we acknowledge that a huge number of humans are
>>> not healthy, and that many suffer from debilitating mental illnesses and
>>> that many of the ill are parents, than stresses within the current system
>>> become more evident.
>>> 
>>> As adults I believe our obligation is to  comfort, feed and educate the
>>> hungry children before we challenge the  failing parents to do better.
>>> 
>>> Teachers are the salaried front  line of defense for our kids.  There are
>>> good teachers, and there are  some that are worse than the stereotype of the
>>> 'welfare queen'.  Often  teachers deliver tissues, require hands to be
>>> washed, isolate the kids with  head lice, report those who appear to have
>>> been abused and quiet a riot  before chalk touches black board.  Like
>>> parents, teachers need support  systems.
>>> 
>>> Society is complicated.  Most of us contribute.   DINKS might pay more in
>>> taxes, for services being directed outside  their own needs.  Parents might
>>> invest a greater portion of their time  and money to their own kids.  Those
>>> kids might be our future tax base.   Stay home parents might be eyes on the
>>> street, a quiet deterrent to  afternoon crime and possibly a group that
>>> gardens or makes our parks look  more people friendly.
>>> 
>>> It would be nice if "them" were not just  'problems' but also
>>> 'opportunities'.  It would be nice if "we" paused,  often, to contemplate
>>> all the good we receive, and to say thank you.  I  am grateful that Wilma,
>>> provokes thought.  I usually, but do not always  agree with her.  I do
>>> admire her clear, frank, brave writing.   More than most, she enables me to
>>> better understand something that is  rolling around in my brain, collecting
>>> the lint of foundered ideas and  stuttered words.
>>> 
>>> This is an election year.  We have less than 5  months to declare our
>>> choices.  I hope all eligible Adults: register;  make time to think about
>>> their visions of a better society; examine  candidate skills and plans;
>>> VOTE, for the people that will bring us closer  to the society we want.
>>> 
>>> All the best!
>>> 
>>> Liz  Campion
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
>>> ... When you have  parents lamenting the end of a school year because they
>>> expect
>>> schools to  give their children free breakfast ad lunch, well...
>>> 
>>> Why buy food and  cook when <a parent> could use that money for hair
>>> extensions  that
>>> take eight hours or more to put in.
>>> 
>>> That is what <teachers  are> up  against.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> Click to for great deals on pitching machines and baseballs.
>>> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/Ioyw6i3mj5aJDRYcD2mtbtAm45YqeMV
>>> 2RUjeQUBH1TBhf5wSSHsTKJ/>
>>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
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