AGREED.    L.

On Feb 19, 2014, at 9:05 AM, Margie Politzer wrote:

Indoor-outdoor pet cats should also be excluded since they often choose to be outside. My former cat Jenna (RIP) loved sleeping under a shady bush on the moist ground on the hottest of days. She actually hardly came inside on the hottest of days.

Really, I think cats should be excluded. They are generally not chained outdoors without shelter like dogs are.

Margie

On Feb 19, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Kathleen Turner wrote:

Because we have a "neighborhood feral", George, that several households on our block feed and look after (although he's not as famous as USP Charlie), I shared some of the messages about this with those neighbors. One of them forwarded the question to Barbara Paul, who of course is the person who has really pushed animal cruelty prosecutions in the Phila. DA's office. Here's her response:

I do not think that this would ever apply to feral cat caretakers. Feral cats are by their nature wild and un-possessable. But there should be language in the statute to explicitly exclude such caretakers.

Nadia, please let us know what we can do to support the amendment you're working on -- sounds like it really is necessary.

Kathleen

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Naomi Fior <[email protected]> wrote:
Nadia,

Thank you for working to fix this bill preemptively. I think there does need to be a law - just like there is a law that you must provide food, water & shelter for an outside dog. Some people are ignorant pet owners either because they don't know any better (a poor excuse) or don't care. Without a law in place there is no support for concerned neighbors trying to do what is in a neglected animal's best interest. I've seen it with my neighbors. They take in an animal they do not have the means, time or know how to take care of and the poor animal suffers. The most effective way to have authorities intervene is through the legal system.

That being said, we also have an indoor-outdoor cat. He came to us when he was 1-1/2 years old and had lived on the streets for some time. (Long enough to get trapped, fixed, tipped & released.) He is content to let us take care of him most of the time and is inside every night. But when the weather permits, he wants out and he will raise hell if we try to stop him. (And we have genuinely tried.) In the interest of our home, we let him out. It's better for us because our things don't get peed on, shredded or otherwise destroyed. And he keeps the squirrel population down and gets some exercise which keeps his weight in a healthy range. He is up to date on shots, microchiped and wears a collar (unless it just fell off). He stays close - with in a 1/2 block radius - and is a fixture on our block. He's even got some of the senior ladies feeding him treats! So he is semi-free roaming but owned. Which seems like it is a grey area unless otherwise defined in this bill. Thank you Nadia for working to tighten this grey area up!

Naomi
(the other Naomi)
On Feb 12, 2014 6:16 PM, "Gray Laub" <[email protected]> wrote:
I appreciate what you're attempting and agree that feral cat caregivers(?) should not be prosecuted. But I'm in the same boat as Naomi with a cat who, practically speaking, has possession, custody and control of us and our house when he feels like it. Other times he may be at a neighbor's house. And he never calls to let us know. Many of you may know Rusty at 46th and Hazel. I prefer the bill to be defeated rather than fixed. The proposed temperatures are ridiculous and there is no way we could comply anyway. In true extremes would wanton disregard of pets' health be chargeable under animal cruelty laws already on the books?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:53 PM, Nadia Adawi <[email protected]> wrote:

Sadly, the law on this is not that clear-cut - there have been numerous instances around the country where community cat caretakers have been found to have "possession, custody or control." I am working with a couple of other lawyers to try to draft a possible amendment to make it clear that this does not apply to "feral" or free-roaming cats.
Nadia

Nadia Adawi, Esq., M.B.A.
Vice Chair, Pennsylvania Bar Association Animal Law Committee
[email protected]
(215) 292-3080 cell


On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Horowitz, Tina wrote:

I think the important words here are “owns or has possession, custody or control” – feral cats are by definition, wild, so I don’ t believe they would apply here, even if someone maintains the colony regularly. I think this bill clearly is targeted at people who have animals that have a home that they can go to but are instead left outside.


Tina Horowitz
Wharton Financial Institutions Center
University of Pennsylvania
2306 SH-DH, 3620 Locust Walk
Philadelphia, PA 19104
215-573-7382
fax 215-573-8757

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of Nadia Adawi
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; UCNeighbors Neighbors
Subject: Re: Big concerns about this bill, need more information: Re: [UCNeighbors] Dogs Left Outside

Good catch - I just now pulled the proposed bill (Bill No. 140080) and it reads:

"... any person who owns or has possession, custody or control of a dog or cat shall not allow the animal to remain outdoors (except for brief walks and exercise) whenever the outside temperature falls below 32 degrees Fahrenheit or rises above 85 degrees Fahrenheit or whenever inclement weather conditions, including but not limited to rain, sleet, ice, snow or wind are likely to threaten the health or safety of the animal."

I am worried that this could include those of us who maintain feral cat colonies as well. Let me ask some other animal lawyers what they think.

Nadia

Nadia Adawi, Esq., M.B.A.
[email protected]
(215) 292-3080 cell

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 On Feb 11, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Naomi Segal wrote:

Cindy (or someone else) can you please get more details on this? The radio report this morning that I heard included cats, and that would be a HUGE problem for me or for anyone who cares for rescued or outdoor cats.

Lots of people know our cat Charlie ("Charlie the Beloved USP Cat" on Facebook; we didn't create that page, USP students did). Charlie was rescued at 1 year old, almost 10 years ago. Once he felt healthier he made it TOTALLY CLEAR that he would decide when he was going in and out, not us, unless we or our other cats wanted to feel his wrath. He is very annoyed at the weather this winter, but we've learned: We let him out, we set a timer for 5 minutes, he comes back in. Or if it's super cold he won't even go past the front door. He also has an insulated cat box on our porch with hay. He hasn't been out overnight in months -- he's brought himself back because he knows it's cold. But it's HIS choice, and can't be ours, or else he couldn't live with us or probably anyone.

It's the same for many cared for outdoor and rescued cats.

Bottom line: If cats are part of this bill then PLEASE don't support it until some changes are made. and if anyone can get more information on it and post it then that would be wonderful. If it doesn't include cats and was just a wrong report then THAT WOULD BE GREAT!!

thanks.
Naomi (Segal)

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Cindy Miller <[email protected]> wrote: Councilman Kenyatta Johnson has proposed making it illegal to leave dogs outside when temperatures are below 32 or above 85. You can email your councilperson to express support for this at: http://philadelphiacitycouncil.net/council-members/

 
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/02/09/leaving-dogs-outside-in-freezing-cold-could-become-illegal-in-philadelphia/

-cindy

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