C'est un peu la même chose quand on parcourt la littérature sur la VNI 
concernant les MPOC: les étatsuniens traitents beaucoup plus précocément que 
nous les patients.  Je pense que comme beaucoup de traitements dans les 
insuffisances respiratoires, plus la crise est sévère, plus le traitement est 
efficace.
 
Parlez-en avec les "vieux" docteurs qui ont connu l'ère pré-Bipap.  Ils 
intubaient beaucoup plus de patients, même ceux qui n'arrivaient pas 
in-extremis, surtout à cause de la fatigue respiratoire.
 
Ça me semble évident que si l'on traite agressivement les pts peu malades, les 
traitements "de dernier recours" seront moins efficaces.
 
Je ne sais pas ce que leur comité d'éthique ont exigés, ou peut-être que les 
chercheurs ont voulu recruter des pts moins malades pour accélérer l'étude, 
mais je suis cliniquement et gaz-veineux-parlant convaincu que les patients se 
fatiguent moins avec un BIPAP.
 
Martin



Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:14:01 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 
URG-L: FW: InfoPOEM: CPAP and NIPPV no better than O2 in acutepulmonary edema 
(3CPO)
J'ai la meme impression que Julie
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Julie Boyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



En effet, c'est surprenant.
Les patients qui tolèrent sont tellement plus relax, plus rapidement avec le 
BiPap. En plus, la majorité tolère bien. J'ai toujours eu l'impression que le 
Bipap prévenait l'intubation…. Peut-être que l'on traite le docteur ??? Les 
patients ont l'air mieux.
Julie 
 


From: Alain Vadeboncoeur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 
2008 10:01 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: URG-L: FW: InfoPOEM: CPAP and NIPPV no 
better than O2 in acute pulmonary edema (3CPO)
 
FAscinant quand même!
 
ALain
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "Équipe 
éditoriale de amc.ca"Sent: 2 septembre 2008 05:21To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 
InfoPOEM: CPAP and NIPPV no better than O2 in acute pulmonary edema (3CPO)




Pour assurer la livraison de ce courriel dans votre boîte de réception, 
veuillez ajouter [EMAIL PROTECTED] à votre carnet de contacts. 










CPAP and NIPPV no better than O2 in acute pulmonary edema (3CPO)
Clinical question Does noninvasive ventilation improve outcomes in patients 
with acute cardiogenic pulmonary edema?
Bottom line In patients with acute cardiogenic pulmonary edema, continuous 
positive airway pressure (CPAP) and noninvasive positive pressure support 
(NIPPV) do not reduce mortality or the risk of requiring intubation more than 
standard oxygen therapy. They may provide a small benefit in terms of greater 
relief of dyspnea. (LOE = 1b)
Reference Gray A, Goodacre S, Newby DE, et al, for the 3CPO Trialists. 
Noninvasive ventilation in acute cardiogenic pulmonary edema. N Engl J Med 
2008;359(2):142-151. 
Study design Randomized controlled trial (nonblinded)
FundingGovernment
AllocationConcealed 
SettingInpatient (any location) 












 Obtenez des crédits  Mainpro




 Discutez de cet InfoPOEM




 Archives




 Bilan des crédits




 Plus de FMC / DPC
 









Publicité 
 











 Envoyez-nous vos commentaires


Synopsis The optimal approach to noninvasive ventilation for patients with 
acute cardiogenic pulmonary edema remains unclear, with only a few small 
randomized controlled trials. CPAP provides the same level of positive airway 
pressure throughout the respiratory cycle, while NIPPV increases pressure more 
during inspiration than during expiration. There are theoretical reasons to 
think that NIPPV may be better, but it has also been associated with a greater 
risk of acute myocardial infarction. In this study, 1069 adults with acute 
cardiogenic pulmonary edema at 26 United Kingdom emergency departments were 
randomized to receive oxygen therapy, CPAP, or NIPPV. All patients had 
pulmonary edema on chest x-ray, a pH of less than 7.35, and a respiratory rate 
greater than 20 breaths per minute. Their mean age was 78 years and 57% were 
women. All patients received the assigned treatment for at least 2 hours, with 
the duration of further treatment determined by the treating physician. Groups 
were balanced at the start of the study and analysis was by intention to treat. 
Overall adherence to the assigned treatment was good, although patients 
initially assigned to oxygen were more likely to change therapy because of 
respiratory distress (8.4% vs 1.4% for CPAP and 3.4% for NIPPV; P < .001), 
while those assigned to NIPPV were more likely to change therapy because of 
patient discomfort (8.4% vs 5.2% for CPAP and 0.3% for oxygen; P < .001). After 
7 days, there was no significant difference between groups regarding rates of 
mortality or need for intubation, or regarding mortality at 30 days. Patients 
receiving CPAP or NIPPV had a greater improvement on a 10-point dyspnea score 
than those receiving oxygen alone (4.6 vs 3.9 points), but this difference is 
of questionable clinical significance. There were also greater improvements in 
arterial pCO2 and pH, but again the clinical significance is uncertain.
Discutez de cet InfoPOEM






ArchivesInfoPOEMs (contenu anglais) | CLIPs (contenu anglais) | Critique et 
pratique
Ressources cliniquesAccueil | Manuels | Revues | Information médicaments | 
Tests de laboratoire | InfoPOEMs | Guide de pratique clinique | Documents 
d'information pour les patients | Bibliothécaire de l'AMC
RaccourcisMD Consult | STAT!Ref | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | OVID Medline | Revues 
EBSCO | JAMC | Essential Evidence Plus | MedCalc 3000
FMC / DPCVoir les cours en ligne | Bilan des crédits
Gestion de la pratiqueAccueil | Créez un site Web de pratique | Clinique 
informatisée | Bureau | Dotation en personnel | Finances | Juridique et vie 
privée


POEMs veut dire "Patient-Oriented Evidence that Matters". 
Désirez-vous changer le format de vos courriels d'InfoPOEMs quotidiens ou votre 
adresse courriel de la liste d'InfoPOEMs quotidiens? Gérez vos options 
d'InfoPOEMs quotidiens à partir du site Web amc.ca. Cliquez ici pour vous 
désabonner. 
Copyright © 1995-2008 InfoPOEM, Inc. www.infopoems.com. Tous droits réservés. 
Copyright © 2008 Association Médicale Canadienne, Tous droits réservés. 

_________________________________________________________________

Répondre à