Hi Mark,

I don't expect to change your opinion, and I have not read a response to this thread that would cause me to change mine; but for the sake of argument:

what better method is available to present the UI in a manner that those who don't speak the language of the programer may understand?

But this can all too easily result in presenting the UI in a manner that no-one <except> the programmer understands, and even the programmer may have trouble if she's hasn't looked at it for a while. OK, a picture of a train with an arrow will suggest to anyone who knows what a train is that the station is that-away, but many of the routine actions we perform with computers are not so easily represented by a simple 16X16 picture - all anglophones tend to agree on what 'separate' means, but should the zipper icon mentioned in my previous post be open or closed?


That's why we have tooltips and reference manuals...and some of us display on-screen contextual help at each step in a process. I suggest that once the user understands the meaning of an icon within a specific application, she/he will recognize that icon in subsequent windows in the application more quickly than identifying a string of text.

How many of the icons on a Rev (or PhotoShop or whatever) palette or menuBar did you understand the first time you looked at the app? Want to picture a palette where all choices are text...in German? (Sorry to be stereotypic, but when I think of translations that expand the number of characters, German comes to mind)

And what do you do when you have a one-character column whose title is 15 characters? Do you give up 14 characters of table space and display the full heading; or do you abbreviate the label or use a shorter, but slightly different, word? Once you start abbreviating or substituting a word with a slightly different meaning when adding support for a new language, you have no more uniformity of understanding than you would have with icons.

And using icons as label fields and column headings has a MAJOR advantage over text: they remain the same size regardless of the the language. So if one is translating an application from French to German, for example, one need not be concerned whether the German label text takes up more field space than the same text in French.

The major advantage is only to the programmer - not a good substitute for proper internationalization. And tool-tips, though they have their uses, really don't cut it - if the user can't fathom what what the un-captioned little pictures mean (either because of cultural differences, or because of poor choices by the programmer), then she has to hover her mouse over each icon until she finds the one she wants. Captions, in the users own language, are incomparably better.


If an application can be modified and translated into other languages more quickly, and maintained in a single source code, I say the user benefits as much or more than the programmer. Not only will upgrades, fixes, and support for new languages come more quickly, but less (or no) programming time and expense is spent in duplicating the same logic in different sized fields for different languages. And often, depending on the data displayed, one can use one screen shot for documentation in all languages the app supports.

It seems to me that pictures are great where one can assume a shared frame of reference (nearly everyone knows about trains, and trains tend to look quite alike everywhere), but when striving for clarity in a UI, I think it's essential to remember that humans tend to use language, far more than anything else, for the purpose of communicating information effectively.


I think you underestimate the importance of non-textual communication, and that recent List discussions re the difficulty of understanding another person's intention or meaning based on text alone bear that out. In my early programming career I worked with text--and nothing but text. FORTRAN, PL/1, and other early languages had no support for images, sounds (beyond beep), animations or color. Since my first experience with HyperCard, my quest has been to find ways to engage the user via as many of his/her senses I can reach as a programmer.

Why abandon language, when it's so much more clear and efficient than just about anything else?


One does not abandon language by replacing label text with icons...especially if the icons have toolTips. In essence, the textual labels become toolTips; so the icons add to the total experience, not replace it.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
[email protected]
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Reply via email to