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Thanks Endre, and yes, I've just run into the "keep
it simple and use bumps" thing in another project ... SDS detail down to nuts,
bolts and washers ... only to apply a rust/eroded material and see that analytic
cylinders would have worked faster and with no image loss.
Neil Cooke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 4:00
PM
Subject: AW: Spline Modelling
question
Hi
Neil,
my
vote is SDS too, and as i know, all human faces modeller are using
SDS.
Some
tips:
1.
keep it simple (some details can be done with displacement mapping
later)
2.
if you want to animate it, keep in mind the deformations parts behaviour (at
these places you need more control points, to achieve that it behave as you
want ;- )
Regards Endre
Thanks Stefan and Boris,
Your vote is mainly SDS for human face
modelling.
The trouble with human faces is that I don't
use them in my personal work, only for client work, which means I need the
most efficient drawing systems . . . so if there had been a more useful
approach I wanted to know.
SDS is fun for me and so I'm glad to hear that
it's the weapon of choice for you folk too.
Neil Cooke.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:15
AM
Subject: Re: Spline Modelling
question
Hi Neil n all..
I personally now adays mostly just work in
SDS, after "Getting it" some years ago, I feel SDS is really
awesome...
When I "got it" some years ago, I felt as one
with the SDS tools, (in the way that I felt from one point and on, how I
would do in SDS to get the result I wanted...)
I sometimes though, use on some parts of my
models, the Nurbs to SDS workflow.., since some shapes are really much
easier to "Draw" with a curve than moving points/edges/faces around...
But I never use it in big parts of a
model..
I also at times 'Lattice Map' points of a SDS
model to Curves or Nurbs Meshes, and then I modify them.. this is a sort
of a workaround, to get easier control over handling more
points/edges/faces in one go...
(This is pretty good, since if you dont like
your changes, just set the 'Weight' to 0, of the chor that is attatched to
the SDS object)
I try to use all the types of objects and
methods... the most important thing is to get the best feel for YOU and
what gives the best results in the end of the day...! (its very personal
what types and what workflows that each of us "feels" best...and give best
results)
I use Analytics, Nurbs and SDS where I see it
fit, and different workflows for different situations within each prj I
fiddle with...!
So in the end, its very hard to say what is
best, since its very personal, and for some it can be a problem if they
since a long time been working in one way, to later start using new
methods...
For it to be a good transition, one really
need a aha moment..then it usually seems obvious to change workflow to the
newer and better way of doing things...
For all that havent yet got that "aha" "Wow"
feeling when SDS modelling, I really hope they get to experience it.. its
an awesome feeling..!
This is a good topic to discuss around, since
we all have so many ways of doing things, and sharing, will at least gives
us all, new ideas of how things Can be done..
Some of it we can snap up and use, other
things wont suit me, but other will find very useful...
I would really want to see more Videos..where
RS users share some of their workflows...
Since seeing ppl in action really can let you
"get it" !!! (which is very hard to see in text and still images
only...)
Take Care
Best Regards
Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )
A
Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D..
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for your info on this so far.
Off the topic but if you are modelling a
human face is the Nurbs to SDS method the one you would use? The manual
suggests many systems but usually in the text states that "this is ot
the best way" ... what's the best way is the question.
I have had only one human faced
commissioned and used SDS but the job only went to rough ideas so it was
done in a hurry.
Neil Cooke
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005
10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Spline Modelling
question
Hi Daniel n all...
Yep you are correct in that you cant
delete points (well you can in the curves, but when converting to SDS,
the SDS has an evenly spread Number of points...so delete points dont
affect the SDS..)
So yes.. if you do too complicated Nurbs,
then this will be a factor that isnt good....
But if you just use it for the basic,
since its easy to get smooth organic feel when using the Curves.. and
as RS SDS implementation is using Nurbs in full.. your SDS gets that
smooth shape.. even when using only 3 points in the
curves..
So for creating the ground for some more
organic parts of a model, using the Nurb Tools, can really be
helpful...
Using Nurbs to premodel the shape of the
area around the mouth, can be a good way to use it.. to get
a nice flow around the Mouth area, to get the Edgeloops right and nice
flowing, like the muscles in that area.. and using low number of
points in the curves you still gets to see the shape of it, and it
will also keep that smooth shape when converting to SDS..!!! (So you
get a Get What You See type of modeling..)
And since you also can do as many of
these Nurbs Parts as you want/need... that you later can convert into
SDS models, and then Merge these into one Single SDS object if you
like,
you can have Control over Mesh density,
and have higher resolution on areas where you want it..
This single SDS, can you then continue to
build on...connecting the parts in any way you choose..
This workflow differs from those older
Nurbs Tuts, and shouldnt be used to build a complete
model..
SDS modelilng really rock, but can
be complemented and made easier in some parts if using Nurbs where is
useful...
Maybe the SDS Tools should in future
versions of RS, include some of the best parts of the Nurbs Modelling
part integrated...
Yep those rocked that could do amazing
stuff back then..
I then instead used a feature in RS, the
ShrinkWrap one... where I placed Analytic Spheres and so
on and then Had a Mesh Sphere or such, that I ShrinkWrapped
around the Analytics.. it worked pretty well.. =)... (alot more
intuitive workflow, at least for me.., than fiddle with build it up
completly curve by curve.. =)
Take Care
Best Regards
Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )
A
Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D..
Hey Stefan n all,
that is some good advice, I'll definitely give that a
try for my next model.
What I still think, though, is that in order
to use splines in RS you have to be quite organized
about what you're building.. there is no deleting points and
reconnecting them elsewhere.. sure, I can insert a new curve, but
that thing is going to cruise through the whole model and
create more density and detail where I don't need it, making the
whole thing harder and harder to handle.
I never understood those guys who could model heads and stuff
in Real3d. I could build a vase back then, that was it :)
Daniel
On 10/8/05, Beg-inner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi Daniel n all..
You could do as I do some times..
1. Use a nurbs curve to draw the
organic outline of what you need, for example an
ear....
2. Now in the 'Controlbar'
click the 'Parallel' Curve Tool, In 'View' Win click near the
curve, to Create the second curve
3. Multiselect Select both of the
curves and click 'X-Sect' Tool, now you have a NurbsMesh
Level, with those curves inside it
4. Point edit and/or just move the
curves in depth...
5. Do Step 2 again, to create
more curves to shape the basic shape of the
ear...
(the curves are placed in NurbsMesh
Level, If needed you have to move some of them above
other curves)
When pleased with the basic shape of
it, make a Copy of the NurbsMesh Level and delete its
Curves
(You only need a copy if you like to
have the original to go back and edit the curves and so
on...)
Now in the 'SDS' Tab of the 'Tabbed'
Toolsbar, click 'To SDS' Tool... to convert your Nurbsmesh to a
SDS object..
Do the same for other parts of a
face, for instance the mouth area....
After you have your wanted areas of
your (in this case head model), then Multiselect the SDS versions
of them, and in the 'Controlbar' use the 'Merge Object'
Tool
(Now you have it as a whole model,
and you can Merge Points, or Add faces between an Edge of for
instance the Mouth area to an edge of of the Ear area... and so
on..)
This was just a fast example...
I also at times, use Nurbs to do
Tentacles, horns and such.., convert them into SDS, merge them to
main SDS object...
You can find more tips on converting
Nurbs into SDS.. in the manual in 'SDS Modelling' part.. in the
'Converting Objects to Subdivision form'
If something or all is unclear...
just ask..!
(Hope I havent made any
errors..=)
Take Care
Best Regards
Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner
)
A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and
Realsoft3D..
Thanks, guys, for clearing up that confusion so
quickly.
Now Boxmodelling I know and love, but this other approach
seems to be so much smoother for organics, that's why I ask..
AND I have never managed to build anything out of nurbs in
Realsoft unless it is a curtain or a flag.
Maybe that's just me, but I've only started modelling since
SDS came on board.
Again, thanks for the help and have a nice weekend
everybody.
Daniel
On 10/7/05, Aidan O Driscoll <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
Hi
Daniel,
as I thought . after posting. Yes a nice
feature for RS V6 me thinks.
Building a surface with
splines like so and / or a single poly drawn and
another
can be added to it etc.
An alternayive is the Box
Modelling method for a head like this:
http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/head/headhtml
Also look at the rest here:
http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/tutorials.html
Lots
of other tutes like this online re Box Modelling,
Cheers
Aidan.
At 17:47 07/10/2005, you
wrote:
>Hi Daniel,
>
>
>
> Hey
everybody,
>
just a quick question about something that's starting to
confuse me,
>
lately I've been running into a lot of tutorial about
spline
>modelling, such as this one
> http://demented3d.com/tutorial/toontutorial/modeling/headhtml
for
>example,
>
and I wonder how to do that in realsoft... is that even
possible?
>
I mean, the techniques applied look same as cage modelling,
but
with
>splines...?
>
Maybe I'm missing something :/
>
>
Thanks for any insight on
this.
>
Daniel
>
>
>I think what happens in this
tutorial is that the areas between the splines
>are
filled with polygons.
>This is not (yet?) the case in
Realsoft3D. Splines in Realsoft3D need to be
>skinned;
a totally different approach.
>
>Best
regards,
>Robert
>
>
>
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