On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, J Chris Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, James Fisher wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active. > > > > I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions > > haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in > favour > > of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with > > Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be > > horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any > > reputability of any other rounded fonts.) > > > > I'm fairly certain that we can't check Myriad into the ASF repo, no matter > what. (Well, unless we can convince the authors to put it under an open > license.) > > Hey Chris, DW, that's not what I was suggesting. The use of Myriad would be restricted to rasterized versions of the: (1) logo, (2) "time to relax" slogan, (3) "Goodbye, ..." intro text (that's now rasterized into the background PNG in the screenshot). I was hoping that someone with a good copy of Myriad could: * fork my git repo * open the background SVG in Inkscape * change the appropriate text to Myriad semibold * resize the text as appropriate * convert all Myriad text to paths (so I can work with it) * update the raster copy of the background (background.png) * push That way Myriad would never be uploaded. > On a separate note I'm not sure how I feel about CSS fonts in general. > Maybe I'm an old timer, but Helvetica and Georgia are all we really need! > > As should now be clear, I wasn't using Myriad as a @font-face font. The screenshot was misleading in that I now obviously have an installed copy of Myriad on my machine. WRT Helvetica: I'm not one of those font purists that loves Helvetica over Arial -- in the interests of consistency, if Arial were a possible alternative, I'd just use that in CSS. Also: dunno what you think, but Verdana seems more like cheap Myriad substitutes than Arial. Note the much more open counters. In fact, I've just been experimenting, and Verdana 12px ~= Myriad 14px nicely enough that I barely notice it. > Too bad, the Myriad screenshot looks really nice, but I think we shouldn't > get too hooked on the impossible. > > > WRT Chris' fork: > > > > * I like the copy; I've pulled it > > Thanks! (Although your screenshot still shows the old copy.) > > I also changed the quote to one that doesn't mention Django at all: > > “I’ve never seen software that so completely embraces the philosophies > behind HTTP... this is what the software of the future looks like.” > — Jacob Kaplan-Moss, Django creator > Screenshot updated. It's such a flattering quote, I think everyone has their own favourite parts of it :) > > > * The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure > swapping > > back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was > working > > with. > > * I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax" > slogan > > looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space. > > * The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied. > > The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is > > bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from > > there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's > alright > > with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the > same > > (or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped. > > I have a feeling pages other than the front page would not dedicate the > upper 500px to a relaxing picture of guy on a Couch under a lamp, so we > could so something for nav in that space. > > Heh, yeah. ATM my suggestion for more compact pages would be something like: * Remove the intro text * Remove the quote and the lamp * Move the sofa guy up to roughly fill that space > I agree, the bullet list isn't good. That's the point at which I stopped > working... > > > > > This is how things stand: > > http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png > > > Updated screenshot: http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png Rasterized Myriad; Verdana webfont. > > With Myriad, I like the nav at the top right a lot more. Maybe it'll look > ok in Helvetica also? > > > Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should > actually > > be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of > > Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll > pull > > it. > > > > > > James > > > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne < > [email protected] > >> wrote: > > > >> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can > >> lose the two commas. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote: > >>> > >>>> CouchDB is a database built for the Web. > >>>> > >>>> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote: > >>>> > >>>> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but > >> CouchDB is built of the Web." > >>>> > >>>> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/ > >>>> > >>>> Thoughts? > >>>> > >>> > >>> I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a > screenshot: > >>> > >>> http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png > >>> > >>> The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web > >>> > >>> The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back > >> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.) > >>> > >>> Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some > work, > >> but it was fun to get my hands dirty. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web." > >>>>> > >>>>> Or "...comfortable with the web." > >>>>> > >>>>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They > >> both > >>>>> look fine to me. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <[email protected]> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki < > >> [email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old > >> one, > >>>>>> can > >>>>>>> be new one. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Paweł Stawicki > >>>>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com > >>>>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <[email protected] > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson < > >> [email protected]> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: > >>>>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change > the > >>>>>> word > >>>>>>>> mark > >>>>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go > >> back > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and > cons > >>>>>> are: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury. > >>>>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained > brand > >>>>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are > >> already > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, > >> we'd > >>>>>> only > >>>>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away > >> people > >>>>>>>> who want to use it for serious things. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going > to > >> be > >>>>>>>> used > >>>>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> cons: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't > managed > >> to > >>>>>>>> hoover > >>>>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists > own > >> a > >>>>>>>>> genuine copy. > >>>>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think > >>>>>> there's > >>>>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could > >> call > >>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB > >> identity > >>>>>> fits > >>>>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on > an > >>>>>>>> aluminium > >>>>>>>>> couch. > >>>>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a > >> "friendly > >>>>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g. > >>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's > >> used > >>>>>> by > >>>>>>>> All > >>>>>>>>> Nippon business class flights. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Candela pros: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way. > >>>>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and > any > >>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license). > >>>>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it > >>>>>> potentially > >>>>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font". > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> cons: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey > would > >> be > >>>>>>>> nice > >>>>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the > >>>>>> brightness. > >>>>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz < > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find > >>>>>> attached > >>>>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able > >> to > >>>>>>>>>> convert > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing > this > >>>>>>>> email? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards > >>>>>>>>>>>> Julian > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might > >> get > >>>>>>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way > >>>>>> forward > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the site. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe > >> get > >>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>> touch with: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> maddiin <[email protected] <mailto: > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time! > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> N > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Phil Rand > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>> > >> > >
