Christian, If OSGi Alliance membership fee isn’t the issue - and time contributed by engineers isn’t the issue - then if your management could reach out the me and explain the problem I’d happily look into it.
As CEO of Paremus - my primary consideration is the cost of membership (Paremus are Strategic Members) and the time my engineers spend on OSGi Alliance activities & Bndtools which we also lead, So I’m genuinely curious and willing to help. Best Richard > On 26 Nov 2015, at 08:19, Christian Schneider <[email protected]> wrote: > > I agree with JB. It would be great if the foundation would also allow more > individuals to participate in the specification work. > In the open source world there is lots of expertise around OSGi that can be > leveraged. > > For JB and me the problem is that we (till now) can not convince our company > to become a member. Honestly I think this is sad as the money is clearly not > the big issue. > On the other hand we would be able to kind of sponsor part of our time to > work on specifications. Interestingly this is less of an issue at Talend as > it is decided on another management level. > > Christian > > On 26.11.2015 08:37, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote: >> Hi Richard, >> >> it's not excessive for sure, it's more kind of "direction concern" for >> Talend. I'm dealing with the Talend board to convince (I have a meeting >> about that the second week of December), we will see. >> >> The point is more kind of person involvement: what happens if "OSGi people" >> leaves the company to another one. It means that the "new company" has to >> become "OSGi member". >> >> Not a big deal, but it could be great to have non-commercial/Apache >> agreement somehow maybe. >> >> Regards >> JB >> >> On 11/26/2015 08:26 AM, Richard Nicholson wrote: >>> The OSGi Alliance exists because of the companies that step forward to fund >>> it. Then - over and above this financial commitment - those same companies >>> actively put engineering resources into drive OSGi specifications, CT’s & >>> RI’s - many of which are then used by the OSS world including this >>> community. >>> >>> We do have a program for non-commercial Academic Institutions. But >>> commercial organisations do need to pay their dues. >>> >>> For reference, we are only talking $5K a year for Contributing Associate. >>> Hardly excessive? >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Richard >>> >>> >>>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 07:03, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> As a company, I know that it's simple. I'm talking with the Talend board, >>>> but unfortunately, I'm not sure that Talend would be interested to >>>> participate in the OSGi Alliance. >>>> >>>> Maybe we can talk together about the "personal participation" related to >>>> OpenSource/Apache projects. >>>> >>>> WDYT ? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> JB >>>> >>>> On 11/26/2015 07:59 AM, Richard Nicholson wrote: >>>>> Jean-Baptist >>>>> >>>>> Re: Joining the OSGi Alliance is simple. I’d be happy to walk your Talend >>>>> management through the process. >>>>> >>>>> Best Wishes >>>>> >>>>> Richard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 06:51, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> We created features instead of using directly OBR as OBR doesn't cover >>>>>> the needs (features contain transitive features, configuration, bundles, >>>>>> etc). Generating a feature from OBR repository will result to incomplete >>>>>> and limited features IMHO. >>>>>> >>>>>> As bndtools is a design/development time, I would prefer that it can >>>>>> generate a complete feature. >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that a spec enhancement, containing a mix feature (as a generic >>>>>> OSGi feature), subsystem, OSGi Repositories (new name of OBR) can be >>>>>> interesting. >>>>>> As I said in another e-mail, I would be more than happy to participate, >>>>>> but as Apache is not a company and can't pay the OSGi Alliance, it's not >>>>>> easy for us to be part of the OSGi Alliance (other than being employee >>>>>> of a company already member of the OSGi Alliance). >>>>>> >>>>>> Regard >>>>>> JB >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/26/2015 07:13 AM, David Leangen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi JB, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If a plugin is required to create a features set for each development >>>>>>> environment, that would probably create a lot of extra work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If instead a features set could be generated from a generic OBR >>>>>>> repository, then the solution would be generalised to any development >>>>>>> environment. Instead of Karaf features being something totally >>>>>>> different, it would instead be layered on top of the OBR spec. I think >>>>>>> adding a “karaf feature” capability to one or more bundles in a >>>>>>> repository not only makes sense, but is exactly the purpose of the whole >>>>>>> capability / requirement principle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At least, those are my thoughts… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, when development, I would prefer to simply have one type of >>>>>>> (generic) output, rather than have to specialise my output depending on >>>>>>> the runtime environment. I can imagine a set of annotations that would >>>>>>> make feature creating really simple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe this would be a candidate for a spec update, though I am getting >>>>>>> into very unknown territory, as I am by no means an expert in the OSGi >>>>>>> spec. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My 2yen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> =David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would be great if bndtools is able to "generate" the features. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I know that Christian discussed with bndtools guys about that, and I'm >>>>>>>> also jumping in bndtools to help. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WDYT ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> JB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/26/2015 01:36 AM, David Leangen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it’s any help, I am also using bndtools in Eclipse/gradle. I am in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> greenfield environment, so it is probably easier for me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks to the help of the kind people in this community, I was able to >>>>>>>>> get my release process working. I do this by releasing my bundles from >>>>>>>>> bndtools, then having Karaf pull in the bundles from that repository. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> actually like this way of passing the baton, as it nicely decouples my >>>>>>>>> development environment from my deployment environment, using the >>>>>>>>> standard OBR repository as the intermediary. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My only remaining challenge is, since Karaf is centred around >>>>>>>>> features, >>>>>>>>> to figure out how to convert my bnd “application” bundle into a >>>>>>>>> feature. >>>>>>>>> This is the bundle that pulls in all the other necessary bundles based >>>>>>>>> on direct and transient requirements. Clearly, the “application” >>>>>>>>> bundle >>>>>>>>> performs the same function as a Karaf feature, so this would be an >>>>>>>>> interesting avenue to explore. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If possible this week I will experiment with adding a “Karaf Feature” >>>>>>>>> capability to my application bundle, so that when the repository is >>>>>>>>> installed, any bundle with this capability will be added to a >>>>>>>>> corresponding feature, which would also get installed into the system. >>>>>>>>> If this works as I expect, and if the community is interested, I could >>>>>>>>> try to submit a pull request. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Getting back to the title, “Bndtools & Karaf : the right way”, I think >>>>>>>>> that this would be the “right” way to do it. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> =David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2015, at 4:29 AM, [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes agreed, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have found that my reasons for leaving the maven-bundle-plugin >>>>>>>>>> were artificial. You do not need a custom package type because you >>>>>>>>>> can map the lifecycle steps yourself. You can still configure it for >>>>>>>>>> a bnd file and even if it imports by default you can manually >>>>>>>>>> configure it to exclude by default and set all your imports. What I >>>>>>>>>> was trying to get across was that there are a lot of great options >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> there for how to configure your environment and there is no "the >>>>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>>>> way". In my opinion karaf is maven centered where as bnd is centered >>>>>>>>>> on eclipse and its workspaces but they are coming together nicely. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> may take some time to find the tools you like but there are a lot of >>>>>>>>>> really smart people out there that can help you get just the >>>>>>>>>> environment you like. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David Daniel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2015-11-25 14:20, Achim Nierbeck wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> just for the record with the maven-bundle-plugin you can also use >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> bnd file, just configure the pom accordingly. >>>>>>>>>>> regards, Achim >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2015-11-25 16:51 GMT+01:00 <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think different people handle things in different ways. Most >>>>>>>>>>> people who work on karaf seem to use the maven bundle plugin with >>>>>>>>>>> pax-exam for testing. The maven-bundle-plugin uses bnd tools >>>>>>>>>>> underneath and just moves the configuration into your pom file >>>>>>>>>>> instead of .bnd or .bndrun file. What I have been moving to as a >>>>>>>>>>> very beginner in karaf is the bnd-maven-plugin and >>>>>>>>>>> bnd-indexer-plugin. These allow for tighter integration with bnd >>>>>>>>>>> tools but are really alpha in bnd tool 3.1 You have to get the >>>>>>>>>>> builds from bnd tools ci and they don't have support for bnd >>>>>>>>>>> tools running and packaging. I also find myself taking all the >>>>>>>>>>> features that I use from karaf and coping the information in >>>>>>>>>>> there to bnd files so I can run test and package from bnd tools >>>>>>>>>>> which is a lot of duplication of work. Bnd Tools is working on >>>>>>>>>>> adding better maven support but they are really built up around >>>>>>>>>>> eclipse and gradle at this time. I think you will have to find >>>>>>>>>>> what works for you and what features you like. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David Daniel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-11-25 09:41, deadbrain wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all Karaf gurus, >>>>>>>>>>> just a little question dealing with BndTools, I am supposed >>>>>>>>>>> to refactor >>>>>>>>>>> an existing Spring DM application into an OSGi + Blueprint >>>>>>>>>>> application >>>>>>>>>>> to be deployed inside ServiceMix (3.4 or 4). As a >>>>>>>>>>> consequence I would >>>>>>>>>>> like to use Bndtools but launching Karaf rather than the >>>>>>>>>>> defaut Gogo >>>>>>>>>>> shell would be more convenient. >>>>>>>>>>> What is the best way to do that ? >>>>>>>>>>> I am supposed to write or reuse an ApplicationFactory ? I >>>>>>>>>>> found a couple >>>>>>>>>>> of implementations in github (ready to use ?) >>>>>>>>>>> Is there any other valuable option? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>> Jerome >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Member >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC >>>>>>>>>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> >>>>>>>>>>> Committer & Project Lead >>>>>>>>>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/> >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Author of Apache Karaf Cookbook <http://bit.ly/1ps9rkS> >>>>>>>>>>> Software Architect / Project Manager / Scrum Master >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net <http://blog.nanthrax.net/> >>>>>>>> Talend -http://www.talend.com <http://www.talend.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net >>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net >>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com >>> >> > > > -- > Christian Schneider > http://www.liquid-reality.de <http://www.liquid-reality.de/> > > Open Source Architect > http://www.talend.com <http://www.talend.com/>
