Ian, I'm afraid I have not a lot to offer, Nevertheless I try :
From: "Ian McNulty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Chris, > > I don't think it's very time/quality > > productive for someone who's passed that "aha" moment > > to produce this documentation; at least not without > > the aid of an "uninitiated". > > I'd agree with that all the way. You need a dummy to ask where the keys > are and an expert to show him the way. That's a good point. I learnt something like that back in school about man-machine interface (UI). It suggested to always put an option in UI allowing to hide options not needed for a beginners and the reverse to show what is needed for an expert (it was about expert systems, you remember that one ;o). I did not have the luck to work in AI business but I always tried to persuade my successive bosses to adopt this idea, I failed. Perhaps one day we will see that in OFBiz now that I'm my own boss... > That's why I'm deliberately standing here on the tarmac complaining that > I can't find the door. > > Trouble is that, in expert communities like this, normal protocol is to > give the dummy an RTFM to help kick him off down the road to learning to > become an engineer. > > I'm not saying that's happened here. Far from it. This group is an > exception. I've been surprised nobody has yet shown me the door (as in > exit, not cockpit ;) > > But this is why I've been saying from the very beginning that we need a > real users group. Where dummy questions are welcomed, not just tolerated. Yes good idea IMHO, but how, where to set it up, do the community agree ? > > > > > > If you'd like to be that test subject, I'm sure there > > are a mess of people, including myself, that would be > > willing to help explain things to you as you make your > > way through the concepts, documenting as you go. > > Pleased to hear it :) Like I said. This group seems to be the exception, > not the rule. > > > But > > the POV of the documentation cannot be from someone > > who's already gotten the bird off the ground, because > > they're not really sure which button they pressed to > > make it all seem second nature. > > > > Very, very true. Which brings us back to your first question, > > > While I certainly enjoy the analogies, who are you > > ultimately suggesting create these lowest common > > denominator (LCD) documents? > > > > To begin with I thought that might be me. Now I'm not so sure. > > I'd love to do it but... > > Look. I have to be honest. Don't want to promise anything I can't > deliver. I'm on oldy. Brought up in the 50s. Already half shagged out. > Can't do 18 hour days anymore. I'm finding dealing with the emails > difficult enough. They leave my head spinning. I need frequent lie downs :-\ I never did 18 hours a day, that would have been a nighmare for me (Ok I did some but only under huge pressure ;o). But anway it's no required that you work 18 hours a day to achieve some you know... I'm not an italian but I like "Chi va piano va sano". In french we say also "Qui veut aller loin, ménage sa monture", in this case we are our own "monture". Ok, in reality I'm a workalcoolic, but I know that's bad ! > My plan would be to clear the space for it to happen. A blank page with > only one mission. To put absolutely nothing there that isn't necessary, > remove every possible obstacle in the way. OK, do you want an idea here, a tool ? Please take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map. If you prefer a quick trip : http://www.thinksmart.com/mission/workout/mindmapping_intro.html A free tool ? http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page HTH Jacques > We are in the age of Web 2.0 and user-generated content. > > Clearing the brush from the landing strip is not such a huge undertaking. > > Letting it be know all visitors are welcome not such an expensive > message to convey. > > Nature abhors a vacuum. > > They will arrive. > > When they do, they'll tell you what they need. > > Just try stopping them :) > > Ian > > > > > > > > --- Ian McNulty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> David, > >> > >> I don't get the proposition that there are 100 > >> different pilot roles. > >> > >> There are many 1,000s of different destinations. > >> Maybe more than a > >> dozen different pilot roles (commercial, fighter, > >> bomber, spotter, > >> etc.). But but there IS a lowest common denominator. > >> They all fly > >> planes. They all start off on fixed wing, single > >> engine props. They all > >> need to understand basic navigation, aerodynamics, > >> flight-engineering etc. > >> > >> But it is very basic. The need to understand lift, > >> drag, how to > >> calculate take off velocities etc. But I doubt if > >> they start of with 3D > >> vector calculus or need to know what a Reynold's > >> number is. > >> > >> So why can't the target be whatever denominators are > >> common to all pilots? > >> > >> How to find the door handle and the start button > >> would be top of my > >> list. If they can't find those then they ain't never > >> gonna fly. > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> David E. Jones wrote: > >> > >>> On Jan 20, 2007, at 1:25 AM, Ian McNulty wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> David, > >>>> > >>>> I can see where you're coming from on this. This > >>>> > >> project is better > >> > >>>> documented than anything else I've seen in the > >>>> > >> field.You yourself > >> > >>>> have produced a truly awesome amount of > >>>> > >> documentation. I don't know > >> > >>>> where you find the time. All are extremely well > >>>> > >> written, very clear, > >> > >>>> very well laid out. A model of their kind. (No > >>>> > >> I'm not sucking up - I > >> > >>>> mean it :) So what could possibly be the problem. > >>>> > >>>> I found the Introduction Videos and Diagrams page > >>>> > >> you link to here a > >> > >>>> couple of days ago myself. > >>>> > >>>> It was whilst working through these videos that > >>>> > >> the light bulb went off. > >> > >>>> What you're talking us through is a diagram of > >>>> > >> the wiring harness of > >> > >>>> a jumbo jet. > >>>> > >>>> Essential for the engineers who need to service > >>>> > >> it. > >> > >>>> Absolutely the last kind of map a pilot wants to > >>>> > >> find on his lap. > >> > >>>> Know what I mean? > >>>> > >>> Uh, yeah, that's because it is meant to cover the > >>> > >> framework, not the > >> > >>> applications. The two are very different, change > >>> > >> very differently, > >> > >>> need to be understood by different people in > >>> > >> different ways, etc. My > >> > >>> current estimate is that to produce something > >>> > >> adequate for a "pilot", > >> > >>> given that there are about 100 different "pilot" > >>> > >> roles in OFBiz, would > >> > >>> require many times the effort to produce that the > >>> > >> framework videos > >> > >>> with their diagrams, reference materials, > >>> > >> transcriptions, etc. Right > >> > >>> now I don't have the $500k to get into that... and > >>> > >> the $40k already > >> > >>> spent on the documents which are now PDF-dumped > >>> > >> into the > >> > >>> docs.ofbiz.org site was clearly inadequate, > >>> > >> especially as it is mostly > >> > >>> reference materials (which is why you won't find > >>> > >> how-to stuff in the > >> > >>> reference guides, they are references after all, > >>> > >> just for reference > >> > >>> purposes). The Application Overview for Users is > >>> > >> probably more of what > >> > >>> you're looking for, though that section only > >>> > >> represents maybe 3-5% of > >> > >>> what is in OFBiz right now. > >>> > >>> Of course, that's assuming such documents could > >>> > >> even be written in a > >> > >>> way that is close to generally useful. How do I > >>> > >> use it? Well, that > >> > >>> depends on what you want to do... and > >>> > >> unfortunately across a few > >> > >>> different industries that list grows into hundreds > >>> > >> of thousands of > >> > >>> activities... > >>> > >>> So, that's the big question with any document: who > >>> > >> is the target > >> > >>> audience? The more specific the answer, the better > >>> > >> the document will > >> > >>> address their needs. But who is the target > >>> > >> audience for OFBiz? ... ? > >> > >>> -David > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> mcnultyMEDIA > >> 60 Birkdale Gardens > >> Durham > >> DH1 2UL > >> > >> t: +44 (0)191 384 4736 > >> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> w: www.mcnultymedia.co.uk > >> > >> > > ============================================================================================== > > > >> This communication is for the exclusive use of the > >> intended recipient(s) named above and is > >> confidential. Any form of distribution, copying, > >> discussion or use of this communication, its > >> contents, or any information contained herein > >> without prior consent is strictly prohibited. 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