I don't personally recall seeing Pierre break any of the linked guidelines aside from cross posting to dev/private. IMO his marketing messages are neither excessive or unfair. So maybe, just maybe, this isn't about Pierre. And maybe we should stop worrying about who/what triggered it and instead take the message in and accept what are actually perfectly fair guidelines and carry on with our day.
Regards Scott On 20/12/2016 06:38, "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote: > As a user, I appreciate information or even marketing emails related to > ofbiz. If not here, then where? > > For instance, I appreciate it when bigfish announces a new version for > download [here], and I also appreciate it when Pierre posts new modules. > What is the big deal? The developers have ANOTHER email list, which I > don't subscribe (because I don't care about it), so, yes, posting ads to > THAT small audience is not appropriate. > > Let's lighten up... Please. > > > I think nobody accused you to critisise OFBiz > > I believe this is all about Pierre. I think the stuff HE is doing with > ofbiz is fantastic and much appreciated (from my viewpoint). > > On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 6:29 AM, Pierre Smits <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Jacques, > > > > Thank you for expressing a perception. > > > > If that were so I guess the punishment described in the announcement > would > > have been effected. > > > > But given that the statement is interpretable in many ways, I just > thought > > to hedge my bets. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Pierre Smits > > > > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com> > > OFBiz based solutions & services > > > > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace > > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/ > > > > On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Pierre, > > > > > > I think nobody accused you to critisise OFBiz > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 18/12/2016 à 14:39, Pierre Smits a écrit : > > > > > >> First of all: I am NOT critisizing OFBIZ! > > >> > > >> So I beg the 'judges' to see this in light of a quest for clarity. A > > >> clarity that will benefit everybody contributing in this great ASF > > >> project, > > >> as the announcement lacks various references. > > >> > > >> The announcement talks about the image of the project. But what is > that > > >> image? Is that the image expressed in viewpoints from various PMC > > members? > > >> Or from outsiders? Is there a plan/policy to improve that image (if > that > > >> is > > >> indeed necessary)? > > >> > > >> The statement talks about 'over the past few weeks'. Does this mean > that > > >> individuals engaging in unfair marketing before said past few weeks > are > > >> not > > >> treated in the same way as the individuals of the past few weeks? And > > are > > >> the unfair marketing messages from the individuals before the past few > > >> weeks regarded as not distracting our community and not detrimental to > > the > > >> project's image? > > >> This simply boils down to will this project law be applied from a > moment > > >> in > > >> the future and be applied to future actions, or will it be applied to > > only > > >> actions from individuals in the past few weeks (which is very lucid) > or > > >> also to all actions from all individuals since the inception of this > > >> project? > > >> > > >> I haven't seen anything in the past few weeks that could be held > against > > >> an > > >> explicit OFBIZ law applicable at that moment in time. Over the various > > >> years of the existence of this project we all have seen various > > viewpoints > > >> expressed by individuals in the various public mailing lists about how > > >> they > > >> feel about the subject brought before us and how they feel about the > > >> individuals who violated against that viewpoint. But never have we > seen > > >> something that resembled any kind of consensus resulting in an action > > plan > > >> and resulting in a clear ruleset. > > >> > > >> In the first sentence there is talk about criticising OFBiz? What does > > >> that > > >> entail. Is saying that there is something wrong in the code base > > >> criticising OFBiz? Is responding with a different viewpoint to the > > posting > > >> of another contributor criticising OFBiz? What are the boundaries > where > > >> the > > >> expressed viewpoint goes from an effort to improve OFBiz to something > > that > > >> is 'distracting our community and detrimental to the project's image'? > > >> > > >> In the last segment of the announcement the term 'users' is brought > > before > > >> us? It seems to me that this term is to vague without further > > description. > > >> Are we talking about OFBiz users, users of products of Service > Providers > > >> that provide OFBiz related services, readers of mailing list postings, > > or > > >> what? > > >> > > >> The last segment also talks about a punishment for repeat violators of > > the > > >> 3rd Party Marketing directive stated in [1]. Where will the arbitrage > > >> regarding this take place? Which organisational body will do the > > >> prosecuting? And which organisational body will do the judging and > > >> execution of judgement? How do we ensure impartial judging? How do we > > >> ensure transparency? And how do we register complaints, transcripts of > > the > > >> arbitrages and judgings, in order to ensure that every community > member > > >> can > > >> learn from it and does not walk in wrong directions? > > >> > > >> In the last segment the punishment is 'removal from the mailing lists > of > > >> the project'. How long will this punishment be enforced? Is this a > life > > >> sentence, or is there a limitation to this. How do we ensure that the > > >> punishment fits the crime? > > >> > > >> Does this mean that if a PMC Member violates against the directives he > > >> will > > >> remain a PMC Member even though he is removed from the mailing lists? > > >> > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> > > >> Pierre Smits > > >> > > >> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com> > > >> OFBiz based solutions & services > > >> > > >> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace > > >> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/ > > >> > > >> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Jacopo Cappellato < > [email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> Over the past weeks a few individuals have posted several messages > > >>> sponsoring their company's products/services/initiatives and, at the > > same > > >>> time, criticized OFBiz and interfered with several threads in which > > OFBiz > > >>> related topics were discussed.These unfair marketing messages are > > >>> distracting for our community and detrimental to the project's image. > > >>> > > >>> In order to cope with this behavior the OFBiz PMC has published some > > >>> directions to govern how third parties can announce their > > >>> products/services/initiatives on the OFBiz user list: > > >>> > > >>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#3rd-party-marketing > > >>> > > >>> Please consider that users repeatedly violating these directions will > > be > > >>> unsubscribed from the OFBiz lists. > > >>> > > >>> The OFBiz PMC > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > >
