And Frank, you and plenty of others, constantly let us now how JSF is horrible.
Actually, I defy you to find a reference where I have flat-out bashed JSF. I have expressed concerns, and I have, I'm sure, said I'm not so certain some of the basic concepts behind it are good ideas, but I do not believe I have ever bashed JSF or said it is horrible or anything like that. If you can find a reference to where I did, I will get the spoon out and, sands salt, eat my words.
> Also, I notice Craig
still answer a TON of basic Struts questions without even mentioning a word of JSF.
There is no denying Craig is a very helpful individual, and I've said at least a couple of times here today that he has my respect. That doesn't mean I have to agree with him on everything, nor does it mean I shouldn't be able to call him on something I see as a problem. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I suspect he wouldn't disagree with me on that.
> I think it's quite low to state that: '(Craig has) taken
every opportunity to tell everyone that JSF is in fact "the future."' this is an untrue statement - I think he's been nothing but fair in all of his presentations of the subject and if he takes "every" opportunity like you say he does, how come I bet I can pull out of the archives a bunch of recent posts where that is not the case?
Ok, fair point. Perhaps putting the word "every" in there wasn't right. But he (and others, I don't want to make this about Craig soley) have said this (and similar) things, have they not? At best, have they not given that impression? And again, they may absolutely believe it to be true, I am in no way accusing anyone of dishonesty here.
Because I think most of know Craig better than that. From being around the community for a long time and following Craig's posts, it's quite apparent that Craig is about providing what he feels are good solutions.
And you would get no debate from me on that. Like I said, I have no doubt Craig believes JSF to be an excellent solution. Hell, he'd better! :) But does that invalidate, or in some way exclude, any other concerns or questions that may arise? I can't see how.
You can disagree with those solutions, and that's healthy, but I find it unfair to imply that his solutions and promotion of them are tainted by profit motives since, over the years, Craig has been nothing but honest with us. You really think Craig is going "Hmm this product really stinks but I'm going to tell the Struts community that trusts me that the product is great so I can make some money."
No, I don't think he would do that. As I said before, I don't for a second doubt that he truthfully believes in the greatness of JSF. But there can be no doubt that there *IS* a profit motive behind JSF, and I DO NOT mean just from Craig. As he himself pointed out, a number of other companies (40 I think?), at least, have profit motives too. Besides, we're all grown men with, in many cases, families to support.
Having a profit motive is not exclusive of believing in the superiority of a given solution.
What is also ironic is you bring up the question:
"Am I making my decision based on a reasoned examination of the solution being offered, or because I trust the person delivering the message?"
But, I'd love to know how often the flip side is asked by many of you:
"Am I DISMISSING a potential solution based on a reasoned examination of the solution being offered, or am I dismissing it because I DISTRUST the person delivering the message?"
Perfectly valid question.
Do you examine every Microsoft product to see if it might be a good solution?
Yes, to the extend that I could use it in my environment anyway. I try to examine ANY possible solution to what I'm working on, without preconceived notions about what is good or bad, as time allows of course. I have not dismissed JSF out of hand, I simply have a problem with how it is being marketed. If it turns out to be as good as some will tell you it is, I for one will jump on the bandwagon when I am convinced it is the best solution. I am far from being convinced of that now though.
-- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com
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