Ronald I am also thinking of switching to JSF. Do you use Shale, MyFaces or Sun JSF? Any reasons your company starts to use JSF as I am standing at the cross road of Struts and JSF?
Thanks On 11/14/05, Ronald Holshausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I have switched from struts to JSF for our companies product > development, as I can say that JSF is totally CSS oriented. Each > control has a CSS class as a property, and a lot of the tomahawk > components provide their own base CSS classes by default (have a look > at the tabbed pane from tomahawk as an example). > > I agree with you about the mock-ups. With our development, the process > starts with the graphic artists who do the demos and new product > concepts in pure html and CSS with tools like Dreamweaver, etc. Then > the developers convert the HTML to JSPs and write the backing java. > This works the same with struts and JSF. > > Have a look at the clay component from shale, as this supports this > type of development process more fully as you could then use the > generated HTML from the graphic artists directly, just add some ids > much like Tapestry does. > > On 12/11/05, Gary VanMatre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I know there are some leading edge JSF and Shale gurus who monitor this > > > list. I > > > have a basic > > > question: Can rich web application interfaces be created in JSF? > > > > > > I've looked at MyFaces and Tomahawk (http://myfaces.apache.org/). The > > > source > > > code that can be > > > found in the examples at http://www.irian.at/myfaces/home.jsf is > > > perplexing. I > > > see data tables, > > > panel groups, and panel grids for the page layout. I do not see standards > > > based > > > CSS design. I > > > don't see how you could create rich web application interfaces with > > > externalized > > > styles using JSF > > > components. > > > > > > I know the concept is that JSF components can be "rendered" for different > > > viewing devices; > > > however, I'm not sure the creators of JSF really thought through the > > > process of > > > how most web > > > applications are created. I think the usual case is that a mock up of the > > > web > > > interface is > > > created by marketing execs and web designers, then that mock up is > > > "wired" by > > > software engineers > > > (in our case we use Struts for the wiring). CSS design is very advanced > > > (see: > > > http://www.csszengarden.com/). It is unrealistic to think companies are > > > going > > > to retrain their > > > web designers on a new technology that is less capable then the one they > > > are > > > currently using. > > > > > > As a specific example, the use of such tags in JSF as, > > > " > > " is > > > horrible. > > > > > > I think JSF has missed the mark. Rather than tossing out Struts I think > > > Sun > > > should have enhanced > > > Struts by creating a simple process for plugging in web components > > > (perhaps some > > > sort of enhanced > > > Tiles strategy) and they should have also enhanced Struts by adding a > > > better > > > page flow process > > > (similar to Spring WebFlow). > > > > > > > I think that if you take a better look at JSF, you might see Struts, Spring > > and a reusable visual component framework. To see this you have to look > > beyond the basic semantics. So, maybe a forward is called a navigation > > rule and validation is component based verses form based. > > > > I've always seen Struts as building blocks for the rest of the application. > > It provides the foundation, a starting point. Each shop seems to pick and > > choose different extension points to exploit. > > JSF provides the same model where extension points in the framework are > > configured via a configuration file. The framework guts can be swapped > > with a side of a configuration files. JSF expands on this by providing an > > API for building visual components that have characteristics of event > > oriented programming in a request response architecture. The component API > > is a starting point. > > > > The fact that the reference implementation delivers a number of vanilla > > components is a strength but maybe a weakness. The component API should be > > seen as building blocks and not as absolute offering. I don't think that > > Struts would have lead as many projects to success if the developers could > > not have seen how to take advantage of is swappable parts. > > > > > One of the most promising projects for web application frameworks is a > > > project > > > named, "Clarity" > > > (http://www.jsfcentral.com/listings/A6020?link). The goal of this project > > > is to > > > consolidate and > > > enhance existing frameworks. I hope this is the path to nirvana. > > > > > > I like the JSF concept of pluggable components. My major problem with JSF > > > is > > > the design strategy > > > that states an application is a collection of components and these > > > components > > > have renderers for > > > different devices. I suppose that you could try to wrap CSS design around > > > "" tags if you > > > are creating a web application, but this seems contrary to the JSF model. > > > > > > Please share some guiding thoughts. Especially, if you have a link to > > > some cool > > > example pages > > > created with JSF, I'd like to see them. > > > > > You might take a look at the Shale "rolodex" usecases. You will see some > > fun CSS action delivered using a JSF view. It's all done using only two > > custom components and a few JSF extension points, the rest is vanilla RI. > > http://svn.apache.org/builds/struts/nightly/struts-shale/ > > > > > Thx. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Yahoo! 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