Hi Ludwig,
glad to hear that. I will create an empty eclipse project file for you
to use.
Kind regards
Juergen Hoffmann
Am 06.11.2009 um 10:09 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
Jürgen, the hero of the day!
Your mail touched the heart of my fellow developer and it now seems
as if we
are going to use turbine.
I would really appreciate the documents on how to use M2.
/Ludwig
-----Original Message-----
From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: den 5 november 2009 20:55
To: Turbine Users List
Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
Hi Ludwig,
I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have
to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is
right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web
applications. Even JSON Integration.
M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen
who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects
like maven and torque themselves. That said, there has been a lot of
development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too
much. That said, the core developers are currently working on
straightening up TRUNK.
fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now
decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something
yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried
and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are
moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.
And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of
years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see
now is 2009 and you can still get support.
Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the
framework when you use it.
If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other
than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let
me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with
turbine.
Kind regards
Juergen Hoffmann
Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.
What will
happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features
and
turbine stays behind?
Jürgen:
I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most
certaly do
not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation
is as it
is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other
projects
are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really
have no
idea what it takes.
Sheldon:
I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an
application
running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A
and the
setting up of a new project.
Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
/Ludwig
-----Original Message-----
From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production
sites we
run I use Turbine.
I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big
fan of
php either.
Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy
to do
whatever you want with it.
Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for
awhile.
Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
Sheldon Ross
Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
To: [email protected]
Hi Ludwig,
we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only
the
people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum
project
(Thomas Vandahl)
If you need support getting your app running and other things like
build your app using m2, I can really help you.
Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine
to
its bones. So just ask
Kind regards
Juergen
Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
Hello!
I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
fellow
developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
framework
to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
However the
others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
turbine at
the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
quite
cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
developer
(both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
not have
very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it
comes to
object orienting, testing, database management and so on.
Especially
for
complex applications. We are now considering switching framework
and
we are
looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
struts (which
are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
the
things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic
in
the
kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
framework seems
to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic
feature
since
validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
if there
is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
group-role-based which we need.
So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And
why?
I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
Does
turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
What I like and what I am looking for is this:
- The security system - group-role-based
- Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
velocity
is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
are very
readable. I don't like jsp.
- The torque object model that is generated
- A clear file structure for the environment. (What I
like in
turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and
then
create
a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
permission check for all those pages)
The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really
maven 2
compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to
use
version 1.
I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
anymore and
I wonder why.
Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
/Ludwig
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