i tottaly agree with you a "cocoon cook book" web site with small (common) problems (reciepes) and the example code will be a great place for beginners
--stavros On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, JD Daniels wrote: > Agreed. I am still java illiterate.. I get lost when I try to track an > exception down, and find a three line .java file :S > > Using Cocoon -has- been a very difficult proccess. But for sure, I am almost > excited when someone wants something new in something I have that runs under > cocoon. With any of my php apps, I physically cringe when they ask me if > they can have and email sent from some page or the other. I can do a lot of > stuff very fast with php.. I have my own template system and code library I > have built up over the years. But OMG it has become a "ok its done, thats > what ya get" Kind of development... its just too messy. > > I think just the basic xsl transformations are enough to get new users. > Thats how I found cocoon. It was only after that I had a DUH moment and > realized my apps would be much easier to maintain and develop under cocoon. > > I really think that XSP + XSL stylesheets have the capability to knock php > right out of the running. The only reason it hasn't Is php.net's function > search. If you want to attract new people, push the simple stuff... in less > than 200kb, an entire guestbook package can be built. I don't mean to > trivialize cocoon, becuase it is meant for large scale applications, but new > people want to see simple. > > For example... a newbie to php want's to send an email.. he goes to php.net, > punches in 'mail' and now he has whole function reference with a discussion > thread. Now for cocoon, if the mail sample had a configuration file, and a > meat xsp, and all they had to do was drop the mail folder in thier app > folder, and apply thier own xsl, I think we would keep that new guy. > > I'm trying for an idea here - PHP is popular because hosting providers make > it available. The first time I installed and configured PHP by myself was > ten times worse than the cocoon build. Ant kicks make's butt up and down the > street. The way to get hosting providers interested in it is to get demand > up. The way to get demand up is flashy easy stuff. Which is as simple as > guestbooks, page counters, etc that can be used out-of the box. I guess my > point is that *cocoon* - what it is, how it works isn't what needs to > attract new people, its all in the samples! That will keep them going > through the "Cocoon Frosh Week" > > > JD > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorg Heymans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:00 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cocoon activity > > > exactly my thoughts ! > > those people who hang in there and push through those first difficult > days/weeks never look back. Though i'm unsure how many get lost during > those first days and give up. > > maybe the total skillset needed to get a grasp on cocoon is just too > much for less experienced, dunno > > but then again who said cocoon is for beginning web developers (at the > moment)... > > jorg > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > the truth is that cocoon is not (beginners-dev)-friendly > > because many parameters (the pipeline-approach, missing IDE, less debug > > tools) > > > > after 2 years here and with cocoon in production from the first 2.0rc is > > still difficult for me to do something without to see an example. > > > > .. but i like cocoon and believe in cocoon power (thats the reason i'm > > here) > > > > > > --stavros > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Carsten Ziegeler wrote: > > > > > >>Alexander Schatten wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>the whole discussion over the last weeks ist turning around that point, > >>>that most believe, that Cocoon offers a lot of oportunities particularly > >>>also for beginners, but some (including me) are arguing against the > >>>deployment as beeing user-unfriendly, hence alienating many beginners. > >>> > >> > >>I might sound like a rogue, but if you have an itch, scratch it! > >> > >>Carsten > >> > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
