Well, strictly speaking there is no absolute need for XSP; you can either use JXTemplate and/or FlowScript plus the various transformers and generators with which Cocoon is so well-endowed (!) or, if those do not handle it, then write some Plain Ol' Java.
However, bear in mind that XSP allows, through the use of logic sheets, a simple way of "XML Scripting with Tags" (if this description helps?) that helps Java "dummies" like me to avoid writing code for more complex cases (e.g. multiple nested and highly conditional sets of SQL). At the end , this "XML Script" *is* converted to Java and compiled - so if you are a Java guru you can, obviously, write and maintain the necessary code in Java yourself. In summary - avoid using XSP as far as possible, and keep it for those cases where is no other obvious way and you want to avoid writing Java. My 2c Does that help? >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2004/11/11 11:32:44 AM >>> Chaps, I have asked this question before, and i'm going to again, if we have flow/jxt why xsp? If I was a new user what I would wanted see is fir direction as to which architecture to use within cocoon and why. When I first started using cocoon i used xsp as that was what I saw in all the documentation, until I discovered flow/jxt, and then thought well why I have I been doing that to myself! To bring this technology into 70% struts commercial market, issues like MVC and the like need to be brought to the for, and I can't see where xsp stands in all this. my 2 rupees On 11 Nov 2004, at 06:17, Derek Hohls wrote: > Brent > > Sure. Even good documentation will never substitute for being > able to ask a "guru" and, as I said originally, the Cocoon community > is one of its key strengths. Its just that to get people over the > initial learning hurdle takes guidance; and most of us are prepared > to "self learn" with a reasonable level of written material. > > I agree that part of the revised docs could/should be a FAQ; not > too hard to do if you are prepared to wade through past archives! > > One of the subjects I would like to see addressed, and it does come > up quite often, is a comprehensive guide to "Variables in the Cocoon > Environment". There are a multitude of places where variable data > can be stored and manipulated (XSP, XSLT, Flow, Sitemap, Java etc.) > and passing data around an application can be just as hairy. This is > a topic which cuts across a number of others and, for that reason, > would give quite a good perspective on the "inner workings" of Cocoon > as well as being helpful on where and how to deal with data. > > My 2 too. > >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2004/11/10 04:52:43 PM >>> > Maybe there is one and Ive just never found it. But a Cocoon forum > would be pretty helpful. Sure this list is great.. and most people on > it are very helpful. It'd be nice to have an archive of helpful > answers, stickyable topics, forum categories, etc. I realize > marc.theaimsgroup.com mailing list searches are fairly helpful.. but a > forum would be much nicer. > > Sure there could stand to be more documentation.. but I found when I > was learning how to use Hibernate I frequently searched their forums > for more obscure questions/answers than reviewing the documentation. > > Just my 2 cents. > > - Brent > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:16 +0200, Derek Hohls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> Ralph >> >> Yup. I am not envious of any other open source package >> ito community support and the intrinsic capability of the system >> but I if had the odd, spare $10k or even $100k lying around >> the first thing I would do is offer to hire some people (tech expert >> + writer/editor) to redo all the documents; including the main >> website and wiki. Plus produce a high quality "getting going" guide >> (such as the one that projects like Hibernate has.) >> >> I can dream, right? >> >> Derek >> >> PS Yes, in theory, the above could be done by the community, >> but in practice some old-fashioned, top-down, focussed effort is >> actually what it takes to get something like this together. >> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2004/11/10 08:54:17 AM >>> >> >> >> Derek Hohls wrote: >> >>> I guess my 2c is that I do think Cocoon remains obscure. There >>> seem to be lots of people doing lots of good things with it, but >>> its never promoted [read - not discussed, written about, in forums >>> outside of Cocoon groups, where others could sit up and take >>> notice]. It is a chicken-and-egg situation... but these things can >>> be changed. >>> >> My $.02. >> >> My experience with everyone who is now using Cocoon in our > organization >> >> has gone something like this: >> >> 1. I already know Struts (and JSPs)... >> 2. It's too complicated. >> 3. The documentation is bad. The published books are old and don't >> cover >> the current release. >> 4. Wow. It does that?! >> 5. This is really ccol! >> >> Obviously, getting past 1, 2 and 3 are the hard part, with 1 and 2 >> being >> the worst. The irony is that the solution, IMO, is number 3. Cocoon >> needs better documentation, more published articles, and better >> documentation. >> >> Ralph >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is >> believed to be clean. >> MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. 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