When/If IronPython becomes stable won't IronPython.dll just disappear into the
.NET runtime?
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith J. Farmer
To: Discussion of IronPython
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [IronPython] Feedback neededfor bug fix:Import
pre-compiledmodules
I could be wrong (I certainly have been in the past), but the current scheme
seems to pre-empt the built-in mechanisms.
There are several ways you can get a reference to an assembly -- file name,
name space without strong name, name space and version, name space and public
key, etc. This works well enough for most (not all) purposes. If you want
.NET to load the most recent version of an assembly, you just need to ask for
it. If you require a certain version, or culture, you can ask for those as
well.
Consider an addin approach, where the IronPython.dll is the addin rather than
a compile-time reference. If you did that, then the exe could have a
bootstrapper that merely asks for the runtime without specifying strong names.
It loads IronPython, potentially obeying any of the standard redirection
declarations in exe.config. The exe then casts the IP runtime to
IIronPython_1_0_1, and starts calling methods.
In versioning IronPython, if a breaking change needs to happen, we can use
explicit interfaces:
public int IIronPython_1_0_0.Add(int x, int y) { return x + y + 0.1; }
public int IIronPython_1_0_1.Add(int x, int y) { return x + y; // bug fix }
.. I'm just doing this off the top of my head at the moment, but I think it'd
at least alleviate some of the problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Merrill
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:22 AM
To: Discussion of IronPython
Subject: Re: [IronPython] Feedback needed for bug fix:Import
pre-compiledmodules
I'm not arguing with you -- just playing devil's advocate. Isn't "everyone
has to use the same centrally maintained copy of a DLL" the recipe for "DLL
hell" that .Net is supposed to let us avoid? In the specific scenario you
provide -- you update a DLL used by an existing EXE -- .Net is designed to keep
using the old version of the DLL unless you either re-compile to re-build the
EXE, or add an entry to the EXE's .config file that tells it that it's ok to
use the newer one. (That only applies for DLLs in the GAC, as I understand it.)
.Net isn't supposed to load app X that references DLL Y unless the "identity"
of Y is the identity listed in the manifest for app X. Changing the identity
of a DLL can be done by changing its version number; unfortunately, unless the
DLL is installed in the GAC, you can't have two copies of the same DLL
differing only in their version and have "the right one" (the one referenced by
the EXE, or pointed to by the EXE's config file) load.
Sigh.
At 12:38 AM 1/23/2007, Keith J. Farmer wrote
>Why do you assume the deployment will involve dropping IronPython in the
application directory? Sure, you *could*, but it's unreasonable, I think, to
force the end user to have Yet Another Copy of a dll when it could just
reference the latest-and-greatest at a central location.
>
>The situation I see is:
>
>Install IronPython.
>Install a binaries-only IP app.
>Update IronPython to change a spelling error in a resource -- suddenly the
app doesn't even load.
>
>So, for binaries-only, the situation's just plain broken. Granted, I'd
wager that most Python is distributed with source (if not as source).
>
>Another alternative? Use explicit interfaces in the IronPython runtime to
allow side-by-side versioning of the API. The exe's bootstrapper can load
IronPython.dll without using the strong name, grab the runtime, cast to that
interface and deal with versioning issues for some period of time before
obsoletion. This would also allow developers to switch compatibility levels
when testing their programs.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Merrill
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:03 PM
>To: Discussion of IronPython
>Subject: Re: [IronPython] Feedback needed for bug fix:Import
pre-compiledmodules
>
>Could IP just ignore the timestamp on ironpython.dll and let the .Net
runtime figure out if there are any references to no-longer-present mechanisms
within the binary?
>
>Keith, is it really the case that your clients without Python source are
going to download new versions of IP and (this is important) put them in the
directory with your software? That is, assuming that you put IP.DLL in the
directory with the EXEs/DLLs you built, even if they're doing their own IP
development elsewhere on the machine and updating it regularly, won't your
executables use the old IP.DLL until you give them the new one (and presumably
matching recompiled EXEs/DLLs)?
>
>At 09:24 PM 1/22/2007, Keith J. Farmer wrote
>>the upgraded-ironpython scenario
>>
>>>>> I do not think this is supported. The pre-compiled module has much
dependency on IronPython.dll. Some emitted calls in those modules could be
changed (or removed) in the next version of IronPython.dll.
>>
>>
>>That makes me itch... I understand runtime dependencies, but the
binaries-only deployment scenario just dropped in value if they are completely
invalidated because the runtime undergoes a minor rev (or is otherwise touched).
>>
>>Would it be possible for the runtime to query the assembly to determine if
it's compatible or not? Some sort of poor man's static analysis (eg, a
manifest of API dependencies could be generated when the assembly is stored to
disk, and if the runtime doesn't find any in the list that match any breaking
change from the producing version, it accepts it).
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Haibo Luo
>>Sent: Mon 1/22/2007 4:44 PM
>>To: Discussion of IronPython
>>Subject: Re: [IronPython] Feedback needed for bug fix:Import
pre-compiledmodules
>>
>>
>>
>>If ironpython.dll is newer than lib.exe, and lib.py does not exist, we
should expect an exception?
>>
>>>>> Yes
>>
>>[snip]
>
>
>J. Merrill / Analytical Software Corp
>
>
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J. Merrill / Analytical Software Corp
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