Bummer. Thanks for the info. On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Curt Hagenlocher <[email protected]>wrote:
> Judging by the last internal email I saw about this on Friday, I'd guess > not... :( > > > On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Dody Gunawinata > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Is there any chance for this to come up today? I know it's weekend and the >> summer. >> >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Jimmy Schementi < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Woops, I meant 2.6. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 22, 2009 11:39 AM >>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net >>> >>> >>> >>> IronPython 2 Beta 1 ? >>> >>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Jimmy Schementi < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I completely agree with your points; we have a finite amount of resources >>> and choose to focus on language compatibility over .NET web-stack >>> integration. Though IronPython has done that web-work in the past, we’re >>> purely focused on compat. I’ve forwarded on the previous mail to the >>> ASP.NET team; I want to see IronPython and IronRuby be used on the web >>> more too. =) >>> >>> >>> >>> That being said, *I’ve just finished packaging up >>> Microsoft.Web.Scripting.dll that works against the released IronPython 2 >>> Beta 1, and I’ll be releasing it either today to tomorrow* … so end of >>> conversation? =P Na, I this is a good conversation to have, but in short >>> you’ll be able to use IronPython 2 Beta 1 in ASP.NET very soon again. >>> Hopefully the next beta of IronPython 2.6 will include the DLL and source, >>> otherwise I’ll make this package again. >>> >>> >>> >>> ~js >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dody Gunawinata [mailto:[email protected]] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:23 AM >>> *To:* Jimmy Schementi >>> *Cc:* Discussion of IronPython >>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net >>> >>> >>> >>> The refresh was unusable because it contained the version of IronPyton >>> that is not compatible with .Net 3.5 framework (I think it was built on IP >>> 2.0 Beta 3/4); >>> >>> I'm griping about this issue in this list because I don't think this is a >>> completely separate issue from the DLR programming languages. Maybe it is >>> not a direct responsibility of this team, but the impact is direct for the >>> following reasons: >>> >>> - Nobody adopts a language as is. The libraries matters. The existing >>> community of Python and Ruby are not going to move to Windows platform >>> just >>> because IronPython and IronRuby are being worked on and released. They >>> have >>> had a multi platform runtimes with de facto standards that are capable of >>> doing wonderful things for more than a decade. >>> - There is much bigger market for language adoption for existing >>> .Net/Windows based developers (and new developers) and these guys/gals >>> are >>> using mostly standard Microsoft stacks. And they are using .Net via >>> mainly >>> C# and VB.Net. If the DLR languages do not have proper support at least >>> for >>> the major technology stacks (I would consider ASP.Net/Silverlight as >>> major >>> stacks), many people will not consider using the DLR based language for >>> their production systems. >>> - I know ASP.Net MVC is open source and it's free to be extended etc, >>> but ASP.Net WebForm have be en deployed massively and that's not going to >>> change anytime soon. And theres is already a support, albeit poor and >>> not up >>> to date, for ASP.Net webform stacks in IronPython. Not having it fully >>> updated is a waste of opportunity. >>> - .Net 4.0 and C# vNext contains dynamic language support but really, >>> what is good for if the DLR languages can only be used in much more >>> limited >>> scenarios because some major technology stacks are not supported. >>> - You raised correctly that Django and RoR are being used to >>> validate the languages. But I would argue that the existing technology >>> stack support validates the DLR platform, not just the languages. >>> >>> So yes, I'm not happy with the level of investment being put on >>> supporting the technology stacks because I think it is pretty short sighted. >>> No, I don't blame this team for this but at least if I complain on this >>> list, it might have a chance being forwarded internally because this is one >>> of the best community mailing list for Microsoft technologies. >>> >>> Dody Gunawinata >>> >>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Jimmy Schementi < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> First off, it hasn’t been three years: a refresh was released 8 months >>> ago, and sent to this very list: >>> >>> >>> http://lists.ironpython.com/pipermail/users-ironpython.com/2008-September/008497.html >>> >>> >>> >>> Secondly, rather than just producing these one off releases (where are >>> very taxing on the team), we’re doing it right and getting the source code >>> released and Ms-Pl’d, so we can include it on Codeplex sources, builds, and >>> nightly builds. Then it can be included in each IronPython release, just >>> like Silverlight binaries are. >>> >>> >>> >>> Lastly, IronRuby and IronPython are programming languages, made by >>> programming language teams. We’re very interested in running as many >>> existing Ruby and Python programs as possible. It just so happens that >>> Django and Rails are popular, complex pieces of software that help find >>> bugs, and give the languages street cred for running them. If those web >>> frameworks didn’t run, theirs probably something wrong with our language. >>> >>> >>> >>> Running in ASP.NET and MVC require a significant amount of work *outside >>> * of the language, so it really isn’t a language team’s purpose to build >>> that. Sure they provide good demos as conferences or blog posts, but they’ll >>> only be toys. We’ve invested in those technologies before, which is why the >>> ASP.NET and Silverlight integration exists, but no one is working on >>> enabling web-technologies full-time (though I have spurts of diving back >>> into Silverlight from time to time). If you don’t like the level of >>> investment in dynamic languages for Microsoft web technologies, that’s >>> something that you should communicate to the ASP.NET team; Phil Haack ( >>> http://www.haacked.com) or Dmitry Robsman (http://blogs.msdn.com/dmitryr) >>> are good people to address. >>> >>> >>> >>> ~Jimmy >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:22 PM >>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython >>> *Subject:* [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net >>> >>> >>> >>> Is there any update for IronPython for ASP.Net? >>> >>> >>> >>> It has been three years since IronPython support for ASP.Net introduced >>> with the release of the whitepaper ( >>> http://www.asp.net/DynamicLanguages/whitepaper/) and the first binary. >>> Since then I think we've had Katrina, a Beijing Olympic, a new President, a >>> financial collapse and two James Bond movies - yet until now there is still >>> no up to date support for the technology. I know that the legal team, etc >>> are working on the source release, but I think it is pretty galling that >>> Microsoft's own web framework stack is barely supported by its own dynamic >>> language technology, both on the 'classic' ASP.Net and MVC stack. I mean >>> there is more energy put into having IronPython and IronRuby to run Django >>> and RubyOnRails web framework instead of ASP.Net stack. This just doesn't >>> make sense to me. >>> >>> -- >>> nomadlife.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> nomadlife.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Users mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> nomadlife.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> nomadlife.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Users mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com >> >> > -- nomadlife.org
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