I'm half asleep right now, so I may be completely confused. Or I may just not from Maven well enough yet. I did say it was half an idea, and might not have been worth posting. Lemme think about it further and see where, if anywhere, it goes.
-- /_ Joe Kesselman (he/him/his) -/ _) My Alexa skill for New Music/New Sounds fans: / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJ3H657/ Caveat: Opinionated old geezer with overcompensated writer's block. May be redundant, verbose, prolix, sesquipedalian, didactic, officious, or redundant. ________________________________ From: Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 6:43:30 PM To: Maven Users List <users@maven.apache.org> Subject: Re: Pure curiosity I don't know what issue you're struggling with for the Maven build so we should talk this week or discuss it over email. I don't want to ask you to explain all of this over email if it's quicker to explain via voice. Maybe we can start with: Where is the Maven build and what's the current hurdle? Also note that the Maven devs can be quite helpful on their mailing list. Gary On Sun, Nov 19, 2023, 6:26 PM Joseph Kesselman <kesh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > Maven's declarative nature may be its second greatest strength, following > platform independence and preceding the rich plugin collection. > > The lack of any _dependency_ driven flow below the module level -- > apparently typically solved by throwing more modules into the mix just to > achieve sequencing, or trying to use the fixed sequencing of the stages -- > may be its greatest weakness. Note that I'm still having to play games with > when site runs; site depends on code in the package, and the download > zipfiles depend upon site. > > Alex grants that if you're pushing declarative build design as a Maven > advantage, _make_ beat you the punch by about half a century, and is fully > dependency driven; its major downsides are that it doesn't have platform > independence and isn't new and sexy and markup language based. > > I really expected Maven to handle that better. > > So my half-thought is what it would take to change from stages to > dependencies, and how much of the Maven design would have to be thrown out > the window to achieve it... or at least to draft a prototype that could > leverage what's already been done. > > Maven does beat Ant. And it has the plugin tooling and auto-fetch from > libraries. But the lack of dependency-driven execution Bothers me. > > Vlad favors Gradle. I don't know if Gradle is better, worse, or just > different, but from what he's said it sounds like it does have the ability > to update just what it must, as make did, and to handle sequences that > don't match the predefined stage sequences. Maybe it's time to consider > crossbreeding. > > I may change my mind after further exposure to Maven, but that's my > reaction to what I've seen of it so far and how much help I needed to > understand its quirks. > > > > -- > /_ Joe Kesselman (he/him/his) > -/ _) My Alexa skill for New Music/New Sounds fans: > / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJ3H657/ > > Caveat: Opinionated old geezer with overcompensated writer's block. May be > redundant, verbose, prolix, sesquipedalian, didactic, officious, or > redundant. > ________________________________ > From: Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 5:55:40 PM > To: Maven Users List <users@maven.apache.org> > Subject: Re: Pure curiosity > > You can get an idea by downloading the source zip file from > https://maven.apache.org/download.cgi and and counting something like Java > source files or kilobytes' worth of Java files, or LoCs... > > FWIW, I see Gradle mentioned here and there in our issues. Using > Gradlebwould be a huge mistake IMO... I really don't like Gradle. > > Maven has its quirks, sure, but if you implement a build using Maven's > philosophy of "configuration by exception", you end up with a nice easy to > maintain build. > > Gary > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2023, 5:39 PM Joseph Kesselman <kesh...@alum.mit.edu> > wrote: > > > How large is the actual Maven core application itself, without even the > > "standard" plugins? > > > > (I've got half an idea and am trying to guess how much work it would be > to > > prototype something.) > > > > -- > > /_ Joe Kesselman (he/him/his) > > -/ _) My Alexa skill for New Music/New Sounds fans: > > / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJ3H657/ > > > > Caveat: Opinionated old geezer with overcompensated writer's block. May > be > > redundant, verbose, prolix, sesquipedalian, didactic, officious, or > > redundant. > > >
