Vincent,
Your attitude is counterproductive. Its a real shame that when a
developer weighs in, that they put their efforts into slinging mud and
turning things personal, rather than hashing through an issue.
Vincent Massol wrote:
- then mention it in your question if you don't want a RTFM answer!
Here's a hint -- NO ONE wants an RTFM answer...EVER. Its nothing but
rudeness, and a way that weak people put others down to feel better
about themselves. Even in a situation where someone is really not
bothering to read a manual, and that really is the root of the problem,
there is a way to communicate that with courtesy and tact.
- you still don't point what's not clear in the doc.
See original question. I am looking to put dependencies inside an ear at
an alternate location -- not just dependencies declared, but all
dependencies. The doc appears to address declared modules, not upstream
dependencies in the dependency hierarchy.
- I see your prefer to spend someone else's time rather than yours. All
understandable but not very cool for others.
I don't even know how to answer this except to say its ridiculous.
Anyone that posts to a mailling list is seeking others help. If this is
a problem, I fail to see the purpose of the mailing list.
If you hadn't read the documentation thread -- this is another example
that fits right into that theme.
I read it and I've found it a loss of energy and time. I lost at least 2
hours reading it while I could have spent that time working on Maven's or
Cargo's doc in the meantime ;-). And I didn't learn anything new.
This whole "you wasted my time" sentiment as a response to someone
raising a simple and glaring issue, as if that was to blame for maven
development not getting done is silly, and just another way to try to
shift blame onto the person who raised the issue.
Poor doc + RTFM responses on mailing list == Guaranteed user frustration
... and annoyed committers, which is never good if you plan to use the
software and need help in the future...
Threats, always a constructive thing to add to a conversation.
Brad
P.S. What I asked for was an answer and help, not condescension.
No, what you really asked is that someone does the work for you.
? The work? I asked a question -- I wasn't asking anyone to do work. If
you happen to know, post. If not, don't.. If a user's mailng list is an
inappropriate place to ask a question, because the doc is incomplete, or
doesn't discuss or make clear an issue, then please, let us all know so
we can quit abusing the list.
Sorry for the tone but it took all my energy not to answer to your thread on
documentation and now you've brought me into it. The problem is the way you
voice it and your demands without proposing to help. If Maven is not ready
for you yet, don't use it now. Wait a bit till the doc gets better (most of
us are working as much as we can on do as I type this). You should see a
dramatic improvement in a month or so.
Thanks for the admission that you haven't read what I posted, and
instead have just gotten caught up in the emotion of it all. I have done
the following, indicated in my posts:
1) Googled significantly for answers to things.
2) Read the documentation and traversed the maven web site.
3) Gone out to IRC and chatted with whoever would reply.
4) Contributed a new maven plugin.
5) Submitted patches to 2 existing maven plugins.
6) Been burning tremendous amounts of time over the past month working
with maven.
7) Posted to the mailing list and I believe IRC asking where I could
start if I wanted to document maven in its entirety.
8) Delivered my compliments to the maven developers for the great code
that maven is.
Don't give me this "without proposing to help" bit. The problem here is
common and typical to developers and people in the workplace in general.
Many can't separate the machinery from the mechanic. Instead of treating
it all as nuts and bolts, and discussing issues as if it were tightening
a screw here and loosening a nut there, people develop personal
attachments to their code as if it were their girlfriend, and
consequently get very defensive when someone raises a problem. Case and
point -- this issue of documentation. You and presumably other
developers admit to hearing it before, and that it is a problem, yet
there's still the necessity to blow flak at the person raising the issue.
Rather than call this conversation comletely useless, let's look at what
value it has had: showing who is discussing machinery and who is
defending their attachment to their turf. That's of great value to those
like me who came here to help -- they'll be the wiser to know that it
isn't worth their time to drill to the root problem of an issue, due to
the nerves and personalities involved with getting to a solution.
So in conclusion, I'll leave this issue where it is. If people (and
sadly developers) can't see that to pull up a weed, you gotta get to the
root, then whatever I have to lend to it won't be appreciated by those
firmly affixed on their turf. All I was really interested in doing was
learning more about maven and making it better.
B
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