Hibernate in Action
JSF in Action
Programming Professional Java Applications with Spring
As I think I cannot recommend a shop from here, please send me a private email if you're interested (nothing to be with me, but great shop where I have bought nearly all my IT books) ;-)
2005/9/1, David Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Enrique:
That sounds promising. I am also doing my PMP prep and am trying to put
together a JSF/Hibernate application now, so I am a bit behind you on
the learning curve. I have also been thinking about how a web
application is really a finite state automata and how the diagramming
tools from those may be used for modeling. It's early days on that train
of thought though.
-david-
Enrique Medina wrote:
> You're absolutely right.
>
> I'm currently very busy in preparing my PMP and finishing my JSF
> application, but I will be delighted to transfer all my experience and
> knowledge in this matter as soon as a I find a couple of free weekends
> (I was exactly in the same position that you are now when I began some
> time ago with all this technology, so I can precisely imagine the kind
> of tutorial you are waiting for ;-)
>
> Sorry, but I can only ask for patience right now.
>
> 2005/9/1, David Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>:
>
> I'm going through that phase now waiting for the epiphany to strike...
>
> What I would really like is an article about thinking in ORM (ala
> Hibernate or EJB) that doesn't talk about how the APIs are put
> together
> but, instead, deals with concepts like: this is how to think about
> modeling in ORM, this is how to structure stuff in Hibernate for a
> data-backed bean, or this is how to set up your source area to
> make all
> this a little clearer. A diagrammatic modeling method would also
> be of
> great value. Heck, even a suggested naming practice would be nice! Is
> that XxxAction, XxxController, XxxBean, XxxBackingBean, XxxModel,
> XxxDAO, etc.?
>
> Maybe I'm being a little selfish, but it seems to me that the
> majority
> of postings about backing-store issues are from poor sods such as
> myself
> who are trying to simply create data-coupled web applications that
> won't
> fall apart with the first change. (i.e. that use well structured
> toolkits to assist). With all the options that are available, it is
> difficult to get one scenario working, let alone being able to compare
> solutions in some meaningful way. Every time an issue comes up, the
> answer seems to be to add another software layer, from another
> development group, with another model/philosophy for how the solution
> should be coded. Having reference implementations helps to some
> degree,
> but if you are missing the fundamental concepts, the reference
> implementations can end up being confusing since they tend to
> highlight
> the differences/features of the particular implementation over the
> competition. Even the books with implementations in them tend to dive
> directly into the code without addressing the modeling aspect and the
> thinking that goes into creating the correct model to begin with.
>
> -david-
>
> Joshua Davis wrote:
>
> >Sorry 'bout the head banging! :( If there's anything I can do to
> help, let
> >me know.
> >
> >You are absolutely, positively 100% correct about 'getting a
> grip' on
> >Hibernate.
> >
> >It's actually more fundamental than that: You need to have a good
> >understanding of ORM in general in order to use Hibernate (or EJB
> Entities,
> >or TOPLink, etc.) effectively. For me, understanding ORM was a
> 'leap' that
> >was similar to when I went from structured programming to OOP.
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: news [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of Werner Punz
> >>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 3:56 AM
> >>To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> >>Subject: Re: JSF + Spring + Hibernate
> >>
> >>One of the reasons why I am not that much a friend of
> >>Hibernate anymore.
> >>I did 4 projects with it, and the problems always were the same...
> >>Overkill in mapping details, Session handling and choking on
> >>pojos in which made things more complicated than they should
> >>be, failurs in dependency resolution on write over more
> >>complicated data structures, which then had to be resolved
> manually...
> >>
> >>Constant banging the heads on small stuff, like having a
> >>clean and proper way to resolve m:n issues. Sometimes there
> >>are errors where Hibernate simply does nothing but does not
> >>even throw errors.
> >>
> >>Dont get me wrong, Hibernate is an excellent tool, and
> >>basically has solved most of not all issues you constantly
> >>run into with Object Relational mappins and OODBs, but it is
> >>options overkill and definitely not easy to handle.
> >>I am not sure which is more complicated the EJB approach or
> >>the options overkill in Hibernate, which does not force you
> >>into anything, but often simply fails with leaving you
> >>standing in the rain.
> >>
> >>My opinion is, there must be some kind of middle way, to give
> >>you enough flexibility but does not push you into such a huge
> >>complex layer, Hibernate has evolved into, also 90% of the
> >>main problem you constantly have with hibernate is the
> >>complicated way the session handles the pojos... Dump the
> >>wrong pojo into the session and you get a object has been
> >>used failure.... Run out of the session hibernate chokes on
> >>lazy access instead of trying to resolve the problem by
> >>opening another one and trying to load the rest automatically...
> >>
> >>I would say, Hibernate is the worst/best working solution you
> >>can get from OSS in regards to ORM mapping, but one thing is
> >>for sure, it made things definitely not easier, although if
> >>you have a grip on it, you can save a lot of time, but
> >>aquiring the grip is a hard task, even with the excellent docs.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
