I certainly appreciate all the responses to my questions about 1.2 support.
Looking from the outside in, Craig McClanahan's arguments seem very compelling for moving towards 1.2, although I can certainly imagine it is not that simple. I am only a user at the moment although I am interested in being more in the future. I will look into how to become involved, and where I can help. Based on the information here our team will probably go with a variant of 1.1 with a migration path to 1.2 when available and stable. Thanks again for all of your responses, Jay -----Original Message----- From: Martin Marinschek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:32 AM To: MyFaces Discussion Subject: Re: JSF 1.2 support/plans Ah - I was last searching for this in December, and then Jacob hadn't fulfilled his plan to donate the el. Cool thing! regards, Martin On 1/14/06, Martin van den Bemt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is an Apache licensed EL, here at apache tomcat (at least that is the > plan) : > > http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40tomcat.apache.org/msg02077.html > > So it may be easier to talk to the tomcat people on their plans.. > > Mvgr, > Martin > > Martin Marinschek wrote: > > Yes, > > > > we all know the improvements JSF 1.2 has to offer, and all committers > > want to have a JSF 1.2 compliant version out as soon as possible. > > > > If you can help us make it possible to rely on Sun's CDDL licensed > > code, we'll have a chance to actually work on it. > > > > regards, > > > > Martin > > > > On 1/14/06, Craig McClanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>On 1/13/06, Simon Kitching <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>On Fri, 2006-01-13 at 14:01 -0500, Balunas, Jay wrote: > >>> > >>>>Hello all, > >>>> > >>>>I have been lurking for some time, and have been investigating JSF for a > >> > >>new project at my company. Please forgive me is this has come up already - > >>I did search through several pages of archives and could not find a > >>reference to 1.2 support roadmaps > >> > >>>>Because this will be a new project starting in about a month, and first > >> > >>release around end of summer (August -September) I have been investigating > >>both the current 1.1.1 version of myFaces, and looking into what 1.2 JSF > >>provides. We are planning on using Ajax and from what research I have done > >>JSF 1.2 has some hooks for making Ajax requests less of a hack into the life > >>cycle. > >> > >>>>We are also investigating Suns implementation, but I would prefer to > >> > >>stick with myFaces as the support and community seems stronger. > >> > >>>Note that all the following is not "official"; I'm a myfaces committer, > >>>but not part of the project management committee. This info is just my > >>>view from what I observe happening... > >>> > >>>Firstly, the JSF 1.2 spec is not yet released; it's at "proposed final > >>>draft", and has been for many months. > >> > >>Indeed, no one can actually "release" a "General Availability" > >>implementation of a JCP spec that is not final yet. But that doesn't stop > >>you from working on such an implementation, on the assumption that it will > >>eventually go final (since JSF 1.2 is part of JavaEE 5, I think that's a > >>pretty good bet :-). > >> > >> > >>>I doubt very much if MyFaces will manage to release a 1.2-compatible > >>>version in the next six months. Sun have made JSF 1.2 dependent on a new > >>>version of the EL "expression language" library, and on a new version of > >>>JSP. Until those exist MyFaces can't even begin to implement much of JSF > >>>1.2. > >>> > >>>And I'm not aware of any progress on implementing the next JSP version > >>>by Apache Tomcat or other such projects. As far as I am aware, Sun is > >>>the only one with an implementation of this near completion. That would, > >>>in fact, prevent the official release of the spec for many > >>>organisations; it's common to require at least 2 successful > >>>implementations of a spec before it is considered ready for release. I'm > >>>not sure that Sun works by those rules though. > >>> > >>>MyFaces is intending to add some JSF1.2 type features into the current > >>>1.1-compatible release. Encrypted client-side sessions are already done > >>>for example. > >>> > >>>In addition, there is still a lot of work to be done to stabilise the > >>>current 1.1-compatible release. I personally would like to see effort > >>>put into this before moving on to the next spec version. > >> > >>One option for the MyFaces community to consider, with regards to JSF 1.2, > >>is to utilize some portions of the JSF 1.2 reference implementation, which > >>(unlike the JSF 1.1 RI) is under the CDDL license. The implementation of > >>the new EL APIs seems like an obvious candidate for this. In turn, though, > >>this would require pushing on Apache to accept dependencies on CDDL-licensed > >>code -- from my conversation with insiders, there seems to be no conceptual > >>problem with CDDL's terms; it's caught up in a larger strategic initiative > >>on dealing with non-Apache-licensed software. If the MyFaces community > >>wants to, this would be an obvious case where it would benefit the world. > >>I'd happily go advocate that scenario, if the MyFaces community felt that > >>this was the right direction to go. > >> > >>It isn't by any means required that such a dependency last forever -- if it > >>makes sense to create your own implementation, that's perfectly fine. > >>Consider using the RI code a short term strategy to get a release out the > >>door more quickly than would otherwise be possible. If the code works, and > >>does everything you need, then no harm in relying on it. If it doesn't, > >>replace it -- that's what open source is about. > >> > >>But I need to reiterate a comment above, because it is not obvious to me > >>that the MyFaces development community has figured out all the implications > >>yet: > >> > >>* JSF 1.2 will be (when it is released -- trust me, that is not a long time > >>away :-) a *required* > >> API to be supported by any Java EE 5 server. > >> > >>* That means, any app server vendor who is planning on implementing Java EE > >>5 is going > >> to need to make a JSF technology choice sooner, rather than later. > >> > >> * At the moment, there is only one viable JSF 1.2 implementation that I am > >>aware of. > >> In the absence of any other choice, this will become the default > >>selection. > >> > >>* Specific use cases -- if/when Geronimo and JBoss decide to implement Java > >>EE 5, > >> they are going to require a JSF 1.2 implementation. > >> > >>* Is the MyFaces community interested in being an option for app server > >>vendors? If so, > >> it's time to move quickly. Once a particular app server chooses a > >>particular implementation > >> of a particular dependency, it's generally pretty difficult to affect that > >>choice later. > >> > >>* If MyFaces is satisfied being a JSF 1.1 implementation, for non-JavaEE5 > >>environments, > >> then none of the above matters. ((In my personal opinion, that would be a > >>poor choice, > >> but it is not my choice to make.)) > >> > >>If I were a MyFaces committer (and I'd certainly enjoy being one, but my > >>personal interest is more in the components than in the JSF implementation), > >>I would seriously think about the strategic issues around the > >>when-and-if-supporting-JSF-1.2 question. I would also view a decision to > >>defer paying attention to JSF 1.2 with sadness ... as someone interested in > >>dealing with many of the issues that JSF 1.0/1.1 + JSP brings to the table, > >>I would sure like there to be more people (rather than less) that take > >>advantage of the JSF 1.2 improvements in this area -- and they are > >>*substantial*. To say nothing of everything else that is improved in 1.2 > >>... > >> > >> > >>>Regards, > >>> > >>>Simon > >>> > >>> > >> > >>Craig > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://www.irian.at > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - > > JSF Consulting, Development and > > Courses in English and German > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces > > > > > -- http://www.irian.at Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting, Development and Courses in English and German Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
