> On 10 Mar 2018, at 12:02, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "How are you even using CVS" - because it's there?! See attached screen > shots. It's even labeled "Base IDE", which makes it look pretty darn > integral rather than externalized. I installed NB 8.2 on a brand new Mac > and don't recall doing anything in particular to get it either.
It’s not part of NetBeans IDE though, support was removed about 6-7 years ago to en external plugin in the plugin portal, again here’s the URL explaining it [1]. “Base IDE” is just the name of the category the plugin lives in, which should actually be “Team Collaboration”. You could have only got CVS support by installing the plugin which used to prompt you if you opened a cvs project but had to install manually to do a checkout. But the plugin no longer appears in the plugin portal [2]. [1]: http://wiki.netbeans.org/CVSSupport [2]: http://plugins.netbeans.org/ > "If we introduce..." - we're not holding tutorials telling folks to use it or > even advocating its use. It's a plugin for crying out loud. They can use it > or leave it. Are "young generation" so stupid they can't google and see for > themselves that if they use CVS they're using old tech? That’s not exactly what I meant. And yes, if it’s a burden to support edge cases then the edge cases should be discouraged. Just as my analogy that IE9 has wide support to discontinue its use component developers actively encourage this. We should support the currently wide spread technologies and externalise support for diminishing tech. We could focus out efforts on what other IDE’s are doing like scala support, which the other major IDE’s support out of the box (they don’t support CVS). > "When we continue to support deprecation..." CVS isn't "deprecated" because > there isn't an organization that can proclaim it so - it's just older > technology that isn't worth using on new projects. But it's definitely still > in heavy use and, therefore, an IDE should still support it.. Without doing the analysis i’m not sure what the widespread use is. > "When you continue to support deprecation well beyond it's EOL..." - give me > the date that CVS went EOL??? I must have missed that announcement! When the CVS maintainers stopped working on CVS and started on SVN, they’re the same guys, and made the same mistakes in SVN, i think it started in 2001, I can’t even remember the last publicised book. > We just have different views on the subject. And I don't really have a leg > to stand on: it's up to Netbeans developers and contributors to decide > whether to support that plugin. But I'm 100% sure that there's still > wide-spread use of it out there and that means Netbeans will lose some users > if it drops support. It won’t lose users, it never did when the plugin got dropped :) > Anyway, > This is a good discussion to have had. Let's leave it at that. Attached are > the screen shots. > tom > > > >>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Brett Ryan <brett.r...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 10 Mar 2018, at 10:23, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Who created this external plugin and currently maintains it? If the answer >>> is “Netbeans”, then I disagree with regards to testing it. >> >> NetBeans did, they also created the Java CVS Client which was a huge burden >> to continue to maintain which is why the whole things was externalised >> outside of NetBeans Core. >> >> The reason why plugins become externalised/archived is so the core IDE can >> evolve beyond legacy plugins. >> >>> I don’t think anyone is advocating holding back younger generations - >>> that’s really being overly dramatic. >> >> If we introduce them to deprecated technologies, then yes; we are holding >> them back. >> >>> The CVS plugin (and I imagine SVN as well) is pretty rock solid by now. >> >> How are you even using CVS? I can't even find it on the plugin portal >> anymore, it's been completely removed! >> >>> I can’t imagine it requiring massive resources to maintain. >> >> It was a massive resource to maintain, that's precisely why it was removed. >> >>> On the other hand, as was explained above, lots of people still use these >>> “legacy” repositories. An IDE is only as useful as the breadth of >>> functionality it provides its developers. >> >> Fine, then legacy should not be part of core. There's no need to continue >> supporting legacy, this is why JavaScript libraries remove support for IE8, >> >> When you continue to support deprecation well beyond it's EOL then it does >> hold back the community at large. >> >>> Tom >>> >>>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Brett Ryan <brett.r...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Since CVS is an external plugin we do not need it tested. SVN on the other >>>> hand does need to be tested as it’s still part of the core, I’ve mentioned >>>> this a couple times now. >>>> >>>> It is interesting hearing the commentary on perceptions of DVCS solutions >>>> (Git, hg). Both of these are far easier to use and require no server (svn >>>> needs an apache web server, cvs needs a proprietary server), >>>> branching/forking/merging is so easy it’s unbelievable. >>>> >>>> It’s important for all technology that we don’t hold back younger >>>> generations by supporting legacy as it slows evolution of technology. >>>> >>>> Anyway watch Linus Torvalds talk from 2007 on git at google >>>> https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8 >>>> >>>>> On 10 Mar 2018, at 04:32, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I can join NetCAT since there’s a shortage of CVS users, but I’m not sure >>>>> I will be able to do extensive testing since, as I mentioned, I only use >>>>> CVS when accessing the company’s other projects. But under the motto >>>>> “something is better than nothing”... >>>>> >>>>> tom >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 10:54 AM, Geertjan Wielenga >>>>>> <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The support for CVS is provided as a separate plugin and has been for >>>>>> years. It’s really interesting to hear from various people in this >>>>>> thread that they’re making use of this feature. Would be great to have a >>>>>> few of them join the NetCAT program to give feedback on how the CVS >>>>>> plugin works in the upcoming Apache NetBeans 9.0 release. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gj >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, March 9, 2018, Philip Wasson <pwas...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> What he said. We're using SVN for lots of projects, and switching to >>>>>>>> Git is not worth the effort in our situation. Plus, SVN offers some >>>>>>>> things that Git doesn't, such as fine-grained access controls, so Git >>>>>>>> isn't even an option in every situation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 09:05, Eduard <i...@dejongfrz.nl> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm using SVN. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd be against removing SVN support from NB, doing would greatly >>>>>>>> reduce the usefulnes of NB for me. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Eduard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Heffelfinger wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thanks for bringing this up, I'll discuss with the NetCAT organizers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Brett Ryan <brett.r...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Mar 2018, at 00:34, David Heffelfinger >>>>>>>>>>> <dheffelfin...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We have Test Specifications for both CVS and SVN at >>>>>>>>>>> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy/client/app/#/tribe/32/view. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You can remove cvs, just checked, it was removed in 7.1 RC1. I vote >>>>>>>>>> we remove svn also. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.netbeans.org/CVSSupport >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> None of the NetCAT 9.0 Version Control tribe members have access to >>>>>>>>>>> CVS or SVN repositories to test against, that's why we're looking >>>>>>>>>>> for volunteers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Brett Ryan <brett.r...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought we deprecated both of these years ago? Actually wasn’t >>>>>>>>>>>>> CVS taken out in 7.? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8 Mar 2018, at 21:56, David Heffelfinger >>>>>>>>>>>>> <dheffelfin...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This year I'm leading the NetCAT Version Control Tribe. We need >>>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers that are using NetBeans with CVS or SVN to help us >>>>>>>>>>>>> test integration with these two VCS tools. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are using NetBeans with either one, we could really use >>>>>>>>>>>>> your help. Please sign up at >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+9.0+Participants. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://ensode.net - A Guide to Java, Linux and Other Technology >>>>>>>>>>>>> Topics >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Books: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.packtpub.com/authors/profiles/david-heffelfinger >>>>>>>>>>>>> My Video Training: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.packtpub.com/java-ee-development-with-netbeans-7/video >>>>>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ensode >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> http://ensode.net - A Guide to Java, Linux and Other Technology >>>>>>>>>>> Topics >>>>>>>>>>> My Books: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.packtpub.com/authors/profiles/david-heffelfinger >>>>>>>>>>> My Video Training: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.packtpub.com/java-ee-development-with-netbeans-7/video >>>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ensode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> http://ensode.net - A Guide to Java, Linux and Other Technology Topics >>>>>>>>> My Books: http://www.packtpub.com/authors/profiles/david-heffelfinger >>>>>>>>> My Video Training: >>>>>>>>> http://www.packtpub.com/java-ee-development-with-netbeans-7/video >>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ensode > > > > -- > tjw...@gmail.com > http://landofwolf.blogspot.com/ > <Screen Shot 2018-03-09 at 7.44.59 PM.png> > <Screen Shot 2018-03-09 at 7.44.27 PM.png>
