Freedom of speech is fine, but this list isn't necessarily a free
forum for any speech. There are limits. For example, random
political speech on this list would contravene the simple test of
"relevance". This troll's speech, while "relevant" in its surface use
of references to tapestry and web-frameworks does not, however,
satisfy the test of relevance if you consider the purpose of the list
- for users of Tapestry to ask questions of use, approach, and
function, and for other users and developers to answer the same.
There has been an "advocacy" function permitted, but I think it's
reasonable to turn that off, if it interferes with the list's main
purpose.
It would be natural, then, to simply ban Mr. Smeets or other trolls or
sock-puppets from the list, but you get into the crazy trap of trying
to find each troll and ban them. Possible, but annoying. On the
other hand, hotmail and gmail do not provide their e-mail systems
without limitation (yes, on speech). And since they are private
companies, they are perfectly allowed to limit speech. Constitutional
freedom of speech guarantees in the US refer to government actors, not
private individuals or companies. You can say what you want, but I
don't have to let you into my house to do it. There's a fine line
here, but that's how the law works. So it's reasonable to go to gmail
or hotmail, whose corporate reputation could be impinged by mis-users
of their services, and report such mis-use. In other words, A [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(or similar) is breaking his contract with gmail if he breaks the
Terms of Service of the account, and it is entirely appropriate to
report him. It may be an overreaction - it may be giving too much
attention to it, but it's perfectly to the point of the abuse clauses
in such terms of service.
Lastly Freedom of speech is a right in the US, a privilege or right in
some other countries, and neither in others. However, right of groups
to assemble peacefully is also a right, and this disrupts the users'
list's assembly. The government shouldn't be allowed to shut him up,
but we don't have to put up with the behaviour. FoS, carried to
extremes becomes ludicrous, where your kid's snotty comments that get
him grounded could come back in a lawsuit about you infringing on his
freedoms.
Christian.
On 16-Apr-08, at 08:58 , Andy Pahne wrote:
To quote yourself:
"In general, trolls can simply be ignored. In dealing with this
particular troll, I have opted to start reporting him to the abuse
departments of the networks from which he sends messages. If you
feel compelled, I urge you to do the same in addition to ignoring
him '''completely'''."
I did not take the time to read all those troll's mailings, but as
long as the troll does not violate the personal rights of anybody,
all of his writings fall under the category "freedom of speech".
Opting to report abuse to google mail and others seems to me like
overreaction.
Go with your own advice and ignore the trolls. Spare your energy for
the really important things.
Andy
Chris Lewis schrieb:
I'm sorry, but have you read his messages? He intentionally writes
inflammatory messages, does not respond to questions or requests to
stop
behaving so offensively, and it is highly probable that he is in
violation of the TOS for at least gmail and most likely also
hotmail. I
don't care to know if users of the list make such violations, but
when
someone is clearly using the list for abusive purposes, this
information
becomes relevant (at least to me).
In addition, all of the information on that page was taken from
publicly
accessible archives of public mailing lists. The names, email
addresses,
and messages listed on that page are ones written by him and posted
to
public lists.
Please, explain to me how repeating information that someone has
willingly published to public resources is in any way unethical.
Joshua Jackson wrote:
On 4/16/08, Chris Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How is this not ethical?
Joshua Jackson wrote:
On 4/16/08, Andy Pahne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Don't you think you are getting carried away with it?
I think so too. I don't think this is ethical. :)
Writing people's names and call them trolls. I don't think that is
ethical.
--
Andy Pahne
System Architektur & Software Design
net22 GmbH
Ehrenbergweg 24
32760 Detmold
http://www.net22.de
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Telefon +49 (5231) 58 06 40
Mobil +49 (174) 171 68 70
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
