Thanks,
That's kinda the route I've already taken. On my site, www.startfound.com
,
if you click on any company to see more details it goes to a bookmarkable
page. Same with any tag. Maybe if I've already got that much, I
shouldn't
concern myself with the fact that page 2 of my list is not bookmarkable
but
reachable by google bot. Or maybe I should just add a noindex meta tag on
every page that's not page 1.
It'd be kinda ridiculous to require login to see past page 1. That may be
good for SEO but it'll drive people away.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Thomerson
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
I've been building a community-driven hunting and fishing site in Texas
for
the past year and a half. Since I have converted it to Wicket from
ColdFusion, our search engine rankings have gone WAY UP. That's right,
we're on the first page for tons of searches. Search for "texas
hunting"
-
we're second under only the Texas Parks and Wildlife Association.
How? With Wicket? Yes - it requires a little more work. What I do is
that
for any link that I want Google to be able to follow, I have a subclass
of
Link specific to that. For instance, ViewThreadLink, which takes the ID
for
the link and a model (detachable) of the thread. Then I mount an
IRequestTargetUrlCodingStrategy for each big category of things in my
webapp. I've made several strategies that I use over and over, just
giving
them a different mount path and a different parameter to tell it what
kind
of article, etc, that it will match to. This is made easier because
over
75% of the objects in our site are all similar enough that the extend
from
a
base class that provides the basic functionality for an article / thread
/
etc that has a title, text, pictures, comments, the standard stuff.
So, yes, it takes work. But that's okay - SEO always takes work. I
also
have given a lot of care to use good page titles, good semantic HTML and
stuff things into the URL that don't have anything to do with locating
the
resource, but give the search engines a clue as to what the content is.
Yes, some pages end up with a jsessionid - and I don't like it (example:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-
US%3Aofficial&q=%22south+texas+management+buck%22&btnG=Search).
But, most don't because almost all of my links are bookmarkable. When
the
user clicks something that they can only do as a signed-in user, then it
redirects them to the sign in page, they sign in, and are taken back to
the
page they were on. Then they can pick up, and I don't worry about
bookmarkable URLs for anything that requires user-authentication
(wizards
to
post a new listing, story, admin links, etc).
Jeremy Thomerson
TexasHuntFish.com
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Ok, at least I'm not missing anything. I understand the benefits it's
providing with its stateful framework. Developing a site with Wicket
is
easier than with any other framework I've used. But this
statefulness,
which makes websites so easy to develop, seems to be counter
productive
to
SEO:
GoogleBot will follow and index stateful links. Worst case scenario,
these
actually become visible to google users and when they click the link
it
takes them to an "invalid session" page. They think, "This site is
broken"
and move on to the next link of their search result.
Another approach to solving this is to block all the stateful pages in
my
robots.txt file. But how can I block these links in robots.txt since
they
change per session? Is there any way to know what the url will
resolve
to
when googlebot tries to visit my site so I can tell it to disallow:
/?wicket:interface=:10:1::: and ?wicket:interface=:0:1::: and ...?
-----Original Message-----
From: Igor Vaynberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Ok I did a little preliminary research on this. Right now
PagingNavigator
uses PagingNavigationLink's to represent its page. This extends
Link.
I'm
supposed to override PagingNavigator's newPagingNavigationLink()
method
to
accomplish this (I think) but past that, this isn't very
straightforward to
me.
Do I need to create my own BookmarkablePagingNavigationLink?
When
I
do...
what next? I really don't know enough about
bookmarkablePageLinks
to
do
this. Right now, all the magic happens inside
PagingNavigationLink.
Won't
I have to move all that logic into the WebPage that I'm passing
into
BookmarkablePagingNavigationLink? This seems like a lot of work.
Am
I
missing something critical?
no, you are not missing anything. you see, when you go stateless,
like
what you want, then you have to recreate all the magic stuff that
makes stateful links Just Work. Without state you are back to the
servlet/mvc programming model: you have to encode the state that you
want into the link, then on the trip back decode it, recreate
something from it, and then apply that something onto the
components.
This is the crapwork that wicket does for you usually.
-igor
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Vaynberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
>
> you subclass the pagenavigator and make it use bookmarkable
links
> also. it has factory methods for all the links it uses.
>
> -igor
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Dan Kaplan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > I wasn't talking about the links that are on the list (I
already
make
> those
> > bookmarkable). I'm talking about the links that the
Navigator
> generates.
> > How do I make it so page 2 is bookmarkable?
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Igor Vaynberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:30 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
> >
> > instead of
> >
> > item.add(new link("foo") { onclick() });
> >
> > do
> >
> > item.add(new bookmarkablepagelink("foo", page.class));
> >
> > -igor
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Dan Kaplan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > How? I asked how to do it before and nobody suggested
this
as
a
> > > possibility.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Igor Vaynberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 3:26 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
> > >
> > > dataview can work in a stateless mode, just use
bookmarkable
links
> inside
> > it
> > >
> > > -igor
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Dan Kaplan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > > Regardless, at the very least this makes your site look
"weird"
> and
> > > > unprofessional when google puts a jsessionid on your
url.
There
> has
> > got
> > > to
> > > > be some negative effect when google visits it the
second
time and
> the
> > > > jsessionid has changed but it sees the same exact
content.
Worst
> > case,
> > > > it'll think you're trying to trick it.
> > > >
> > > > About those 404s, I'm finding that with the fix I
provided
I
> don't get
> > a
> > > > 404, but the links refresh the page I'm already on.
IE:
If
I'm
> on A,
> > and
> > > a
> > > > link to B is non-bookmarkable, clicking B refreshes A.
> > > >
> > > > This issue is very disconcerting to me. It's one of
the
reasons
> I
> > wish
> > > that
> > > > DataView had an option to work in stateless mode.
Cause
if
I ban
> > cookies
> > > > and Googlebot visits my home page (with a navigator on
it),
it'll
> try
> > to
> > > > follow all these page links and from its perspective,
they
all
> lead
> > back
> > > to
> > > > the first page. So it's kinda a catch-22: Include the
jsessionid
> in
> > the
> > > > urls and get bad SEO or remove the jsessionid and get
bad
SEO :(
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps the answer to my prayers is a combination of
the
> > noindex/nofollow
> > > > meta tag with a sitemap.xml. I'm thinking I can put a
nofollow
> on the
> > > home
> > > > page (so googlebot doesn't try to follow the navigator
links) and
> use
> > the
> > > > sitemap.xml to point out the individual pages I want
it
to
index.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Matej: can you go into more detail about your hybrid
URL
> statement?
> > > Won't
> > > > google index, for example, /home and /home.1 if I use
it?
When
> it
> > > follows
> > > > the next page, won't the url become /home.1.2 or
something?
That
> .2
> > is a
> > > > page version: If google indexes that and tries to
visit
it
again,
> > won't
> > > it
> > > > report about an invalid session?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Matej Knopp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:10 AM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, crawling non-bookmarkable pages is
not
very
> useful
> > > > anyway, since ?wicket:interface url will always get
page
expired
> when
> > > > you click on the result.
> > > >
> > > > However, preserving session makes lot of sense with
hybrid
url.
> Google
> > > > remembers the original url (without page instance)
while
indexing
> the
> > > > real page (after redirect).
> > > >
> > > > I think though that the crawler is quite advanced. I'm
would
> think it
> > > > supports cookies (at least JSESSIONID) as well as it
evaluates
> some of
> > > > the javascript on page.
> > > >
> > > > -Matej
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Igor Vaynberg
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > right. if you strip sessionid then all your
nonbookmarkable
> urls
> > will
> > > > > resolve to a 404. that will probably drop your rank
a
lot
> > faster....
> > > > >
> > > > > -igor
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Johan Compagner
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > the problem is that then you have to have all
stateless
> pages.
> > Else
> > > > google
> > > > > > can't crawl your website.
> > > > > > And if that is the case then you could be
completely
> stateless
> > so
> > > you
> > > > dont
> > > > > > have a session (id) to worry about at all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > johan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Zappaterrini,
Larry
<
> > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > When Google asks to not have special treatment
for
their
> bot,
> > > they
> > > > are
> > > > > > > referring to content more than anything.
Regarding
the
> session
> > id
> > > > being
> > > > > > > coded in the URL, see the Technical guidelines
section of
> > > Google's
> > > > > > > Webmaster Guidelines -
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769#desi
> > > > > > > gn
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It specifically recommends "allow(ing) search
bots
to
> crawl
> > your
> > > > sites
> > > > > > > without session IDs or arguments that track
their
path
> through
> > > the
> > > > > > > site."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Johan Compagner
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:35 AM
> > > > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Removing the jsessionid for SEO
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > isnt google always saying that you shouldn't
alter
> behavior of
> > > your
> > > > site
> > > > > > > depending of it is there bot or not?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Artur W.
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > igor.vaynberg wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > also by doing what you have done users
with
cookies
> > disabled
> > > > wont be
> > > > > > > > > able to use your site...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In my opinion session id is a problem.
Google
index the
> same
> > > page
> > > > > > > again
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > About the users without cookies we can do
like
this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > static class Unbuffered extends
WebResponse
{
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > private static final
String[]
botAgents
> = {
> > > > > > > "onetszukaj",
> > > > > > > > "googlebot",
> > > > > > > > "appie", "architext",
> > > > > > > > "jeeves", "bjaaland",
"ferret",
> > > "gulliver",
> > > > > > > > "harvest", "htdig",
> > > > > > > > "linkwalker",
"lycos_",
"moget",
> > > > > > > "muscatferret",
> > > > > > > > "myweb", "nomad",
> > > > > > > > "scooter",
> > > > > > > >
"yahoo!\\sslurp\\schina",
> "slurp",
> > > > "weblayers",
> > > > > > > > "antibot", "bruinbot",
> > > > > > > > "digout4u",
> > > > > > > > "echo!",
"ia_archiver",
> "jennybot",
> > > > "mercator",
> > > > > > > > "netcraft", "msnbot",
> > > > > > > > "petersnews",
> > > > > > > > "unlost_web_crawler",
"voila",
> > > "webbase",
> > > > > > > > "webcollage", "cfetch",
> > > > > > > > "zyborg",
> > > > > > > > "wisenutbot",
"robot",
"crawl",
> > "spider"
> > > };
> > > > /*
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > so on... */
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > public Unbuffered(final
> HttpServletResponse
> > res)
> > > {
> > > > > > > > super(res);
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > @Override
> > > > > > > > public CharSequence encodeURL(final
CharSequence
> url)
> > {
> > > > > > > > return isAgent() ? url :
> super.encodeURL(url);
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > private static boolean
isAgent()
{
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > String agent =
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
((WebRequest)RequestCycle.get().getRequest()).getHttpServletRequest().ge
> > > > > > > tHeader("User-Agent");
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > for(String bot :
botAgents)
{
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > (agent.toLowerCase().indexOf(bot) !=
> > > > > > > -1)
> > > > > > > > {
> > > > > > > >
return
true;
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > return false;
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > > }
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I didn't test this code but I do similar
thing
in
my
> old
> > > > application
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > Spring and it works.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Take care,
> > > > > > > > Artur
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > View this message in context:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.nabble.com/Removing-the-jsessionid-for-SEO-
> tp16464534p1646739
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > 6.html<
http://www.nabble.com/Removing-the-jsessionid-for-SEO-
> tp16464534p1646
> > > > 7396.html>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list
archive
at
> > Nabble.com.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > >
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