W dniu 10-11-15 12:14, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: > On 11/15/2010 12:03 PM, Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >> >> >> W dniu 10-11-15 11:34, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote: >>> On 11/15/2010 11:23 AM, Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> W dniu 10-11-13 09:50, Ricardo Rodriguez [eBioTIC.] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>> W dniu 10-11-04 21:28, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> W dniu 10-11-04 12:13, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> W dniu 10-11-04 11:08, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Piotr Dziubecki wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I configured my XWiki instance in the following way: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> #-# This parameter will activate the sectional editing. >>>>>>>>>>>> xwiki.section.edit=1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> #-# This parameter controls the depth of sections that have >>>>>>>>>>>> section editing. >>>>>>>>>>>> #-# By default level 1 and level 2 sections have section editing. >>>>>>>>>>>> xwiki.section.depth=6 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have many users working on documents simultaneously and in order >>>>>>>>>>>> to minimize document locking and possible >>>>>>>>>>>> merging I encourage them to edit sections/paragraphs instead. I >>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that when, for instance, two users >>>>>>>>>>>> edit different sections within the same page, the latter gets the >>>>>>>>>>>> message: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This object is currently locked by user1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I checked and it's possible to force editing and save both of >>>>>>>>>>>> concurrent changes to that document, but the >>>>>>>>>>>> message itself is a bit confusing to the users. I'm asking if it's >>>>>>>>>>>> possible to change xwiki configuration to >>>>>>>>>>>> not display that message when the users edit different paragraphs >>>>>>>>>>>> within the same page ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To the best of my understanding locking is set a document level. >>>>>>>>>>> So, if >>>>>>>>>>> any user edits a section, all other users will receive that message. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think what you are doing is a bit risky. I've had here some >>>>>>>>>>> problems >>>>>>>>>>> following the same problem. When an user received this message, >>>>>>>>>>> although >>>>>>>>>>> she/he is editing only a section, there is no way of knowing if >>>>>>>>>>> they are >>>>>>>>>>> in the same section or in a different one. Even more, if you edit a >>>>>>>>>>> document using the same user at two different locations, you won't >>>>>>>>>>> receive the locking message. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I came from the Media Wiki and section editing is pretty >>>>>>>>>> popular way of collaborative editing ( >>>>>>>>>> avoiding the whole page locks ). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also arrives to XWiki from MediaWiki years ago. So, with the current >>>>>>>>> MediaWiki release, is it possible to do section edition and get a >>>>>>>>> warning only if two users edit the same section? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To be sure, I did some tests here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sandbox >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> no warnings, you can even edit the same section but then you'll need >>>>>>>> to get through the merge phase. In that >>>>>>>> case you see such a message: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. The >>>>>>>> upper text area contains the page text >>>>>>>> as it currently exists. Your changes are shown in the lower text area. >>>>>>>> You will have to merge your changes >>>>>>>> into the existing text. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, I don't see this blocking behaviour working with MediaWiki >>>>>>> sandbox... I don't know why! In any case, MediaWiki is not the case >>>>>>> here! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just summing up: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for that summary, let me comment on your thoughts: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Simultaneous edition is possible, but not advisable with the current >>>>>>> XWiki release. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, especially that there is no merge phase after concurrent editing ( >>>>>> or maybe there is a 'merge plugin' - >>>>>> I'd be grateful for any info on that ). In that case you end up with the >>>>>> article content overridden by >>>>>> someone else and your only hope is to dig in the document's history and >>>>>> try to fix edits manually. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Locking is done at document level. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is that going to change in the future ? In my opinion that basically >>>>>> blocks user groups/communities from >>>>>> working on the documents in a collaborative way. Is it much work to make >>>>>> that lock 'section sensitive', >>>>>> architecture-wise ? If someone could describe what should be done / >>>>>> changed in order to achieve that, maybe >>>>>> we could figure out a solution for that issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. A true real-time edition editor for XWiki is on its way and will >>>>>>> solve all these issues! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, it could be, but it's based on the js/ajax - it could be tricky to >>>>>> achieve a good level of >>>>>> compatibility between browsers ( of course it could be done, Google docs >>>>>> is a good example here ). Of course >>>>>> I'd take that right away in the stable form. But I think merging/lock on >>>>>> the section level could be more >>>>>> than enough for the ordinary wiki users ( Wikipedia is basing on that >>>>>> model on a huge scale and it's doing >>>>>> fine ;) ) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> It will be great if some developer or more skilled user could review >>>>>>> this statements to confirm/deny/complete them! Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I concur. Currently I'm struggling to figure out how to get over that >>>>>> problem. I can tell my users just to >>>>>> ignore the lock message, but that is not super safe and could cause a >>>>>> content loss/corruption. >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking forward to your feedback guys ! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I do agree with you, Piotr. In fact, when I present XWiki to a new group >>>>> of users, this is the question I would like to avoid: how XWiki manage >>>>> concurrent edition? >>>>> >>>>> I talk about locking behaviour and a future real-time editor, but this >>>>> is not a good answer at all. To use instant messaging to agree on a >>>>> timetable to edit a document is what we currently do here. But it is a >>>>> solution out of XWiki (even though it is not costly at all as we use >>>>> instant messaging extensively in our research groups) and I don't like >>>>> to propose this kind of workarounds as I'm trying to show how to use >>>>> XWiki to collaborative writing among other uses. >>>>> >>>>> I'm a bit surprised of being discussing this issue here as we are >>>>> already in a 2.7.z release of XWiki. Perhaps I'm missing something, but >>>>> I am not able to find an answer either. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for your thoughts! >>>> >>>> Exactly the same feelings on my side, Ricardo are you a member of XWiki >>>> team ? I see you're pretty active >>>> over the xwiki users list, is it possible get some attention to that >>>> matter ? I am willing to help with that >>>> since it is crucial for me and my projects, I'd need some guidance from >>>> where to start ( feature request ? >>>> some analysis in the context of the whole system, implementation phase ). >>> >>> http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-175 >>> >>> A patch would be welcome ;) >>> >>> It isn't such a hard issue to fix, but nobody took the time to do it. >>> >> Well that's odd because it seems to me it's one of the key features of wiki >> concepts :) >> >> Apart from that, my question is, since you know the XWiki, if we could >> implement the true lock for the >> sections instead of whole pages ? That would be a great progress, a solution >> for now - user will be aware >> that another user edits the same section and it shouldn't be touched. Now >> with the document lock it's like >> gambling. > > Yes, the current lock could be refined to apply on sections. > >> Could you tell whether the sections are introduced only for the presentation >> layer, to facilitate editing or >> they are also mapped to the application's model ? > > Somewhere in between. The whole content is stored in one piece, but > there are some APIs to access sections.
I don't know if this list is a proper place, but could you give me some basic guidelines regarding locks and documents, I mean where to look and what should be done in general ( which projects, Xwiki platform or modules ). Now I'm reading the materials from the developers zone but I need to estimate the required efforts in terms of time and entry work. Thanks ! Piotr _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
