I have to applaud Adrian's clear and rational expose'. Very well done, Adrian. Just a last note of clarification, which due to the shortness of my reply to Jim may have not been too clear.
I'm not a crusader against individual rights. Actually, I do support them and find that they're very important. The difference of opinion between me and Jim is largely on... perception IMHO. While he may still perceive my position as detrimental to those rights I on the other hand see nothing wrong in finding a balance that would *also* include the benefit of the society of which we're part of. And your beautiful post below just adds more amunition to my position. Once again, well done, Adrian. Marcus On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 03:08:33 Adrian Jadic wrote: >Jim: (I have also read the MA BE's posting "individual freedom") > >I am glad that you bring this up and as Marcus says "we kind-of guessed your >position". >I have to say that I understand and somewhat agree with your views. > >However, and dont get me wrong here, you have a very "Americanized" opinion about >(continental) Europe. Let me explain. >First in the name of professionalism I would stay away from unfortunate >characterizations like "idiocy". > >I was born and lived all my youth in an actual socialist dictatorship. I have also >lived and worked enough in Western Europe to understand its politics and policies. >I can safely tell you that you dont know what you are talking about when you refer >to the EU as socialist and dictatorial. > >I subscribe to European journals and I have followed extensively the process of >introducing the Euro and European integration in general. I have to say that you are >far from being right this time. > >The process of European integration has started a very long time ago. As a matter of >fact it started very soon after the WW2. It is true that in the beginning the >discussion was limited to the political class. However, only in the past 10 years I >have witnessed so many discussions, panels, polls on TV and in the press that I dont >see how one could come to the conclusion that it was imposed on anybody. >Only people like UKIP come up with these populist slogans. > >The way this worked was that politicians and technocrats have put their minds >together and came up with a solution to further develop the EU countries. They >realized that the only way those countries would ever be more than an insignificant >entity would if they will all pull together and become one strong voice. Basic logic. > >Further, they went out and educated their voters through years of televised >discussions and published analysis that the French should stop hating the Germans and >mocking the Belgians, and so on and so on. All in the name of a larger vision that in >the end all Europeans embraced and supported and which was a colorful and rich Europe >rather than a multitude of insignificant states with a handful of disagreements. > >As you may also have witnessed they were also failures. Some politicians failed to >convince their constituents and some countries opted out. Nobody forced them in >despite their will. However, the future will tell us if they were right or they will >live to regret they did not listen to the experts. > >What this has to do with metrication? In many areas it does. Its all about how we go >about it, what works and what doesnt. > >Unlike (continental) European politicians the US political class functions on polls >only. The politician only comes out and speaks in favor or against a certain issue >only when the polls show that the people already share his opinion. I think that this >was one of the main reasons Bush circled the country for a day before speaking to the >nation. >Everything else is left in limbo. Just like the metric legislation. The laws are >there but no one respects them and no politician has the guts of either repelling the >laws or enforcing them. > >Sometimes there is a stealth move that is meant to pass unnoticed like the directive >to metricate the Gov agencies or FPLA. > >This is British style democracy. As you have witnessed in UK the politicians were >cowards enough to accept a resolution from Brussels while failing to prepare the >internal legislation to accommodate that resolution. Consequence: Metric Martyr. >Reason: Submitting the modification of the law to the parliament would have implied a >serious political move and determination which they were not prepared to face. It was >a lot easier to hope it will pass unnoticed. > >Dont get me wrong; I am not trying to say that (continental) Europes politicians >are heroes, or supermen. There is a lot of intrigue and corruption. The only thing I >am pointing out is that the fundamental way of doing politics is different without >being dictatorial. >I see nothing wrong in going out and convince your fellow citizens that something >that comes uneasy to them is in fact in their best interest, rather than just ask >them what they think. It doesn't mean that the politician knows what's best for >everyone else but that he helps them make an EDUCATED decision. > >Getting back to US metrication, do you really believe that the plumber from IBM or >the carpenter from the corner shop will ever vote yes in a poll to metricate? Why >would they? How can he have the foresight to understand that by him switching to cm >will help his son think in metric so that when he grows up and becomes an engineer he >will not waste taxpayer's money on lost Mars Orbiters? > >So if no politician has the guts to stand up and enforce the laws requiring the media >to promote metrication, to start a nation wide action to explain the benefits of SI >in the everyday life of all citizens and finally, to set a sunset date for the use of >ifp in W&M, all there is left to do is to take stealth action and bring metric >through the back door. An option, which I completely despise. > >Adrian > >================ >Jim Elwell wrote in USMA 17607: > >At 11:38 PM 1/23/2002 -0500, kilopascal wrote: >>The Euro is a perfect example of how to convert something. That is why it >>is important to our cause. > >This is a matter of opinion. My opinion is that this is a perfect example >of the dictatorial approach of socialist politicians, and is the *WORST* >way to make something happen if you care the slightest bit about individual >freedom. > >I thank God our Founding Fathers had the foresight to give us a >Constitution in the USA that will prevent such idiocy from being practiced >on American citizens, in the form of "metrication," by all the Anointed who >somehow know what is best for everyone else. > >Jim Elwell > >-- > >_______________________________________________ >Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com >http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > >1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! > >http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com > > Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail. Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com
