A couple of things are worth responding to. 1) You'll have to ask Mr Steele whether he was being anti-imperial or pro-metric.2) Weights and measures at work - I am currently involved with a big security cleared project which involves many (legal) instances of weights and measures most of which is based upon choice (we even have a conversion lookup table). I'm sorry but I cannot discuss the details of the contract due to the unfortunate existence of a couple of weirdos who like to track me. I will mention more in private correspondence but not publicly. Finally - if you check - I followed up John (Steele's) I-19 post with a shared positive opinion - with a congrats. All this anti- stuff would carry weight (insert pun) if I disliked members of this forum and they disliked me. I do not - and I have even met up with USMA list forum members in 'real life' for a friendly chat over a 'pint' (sorry!). Yes there are people who dislike people (and even send poisonous emails) because of a measurement system but to be honest they're 'off the scale' and have far deeper issues than even simply going up to things and measuring them! :-) From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:46869] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 20:52:10 +0000
" "Stephen, you don't have to be 'anti' the opposite to what you are 'pro-' to, if that makes sense. In fact that position (IMHO) is more honourable, realistic and mature. And it makes the argument less personal - again all IMHO." I'm just confused by your bizarre notion that JM Steel was wrong to appear anti-imperial because he would prefer that these metric signs to be kept...and it looks like they may be (hooray!!). He is a metric advocate. He is a member of a metric discussion board. Why should he be worried about appearing anti-imperial when it is the main function of the discussion board is to promote metric? People on here are not exactly going to talk about imperial in glowing terms, are they? "I have my preferences but I'm definitely not anti-metric. I find it difficult to envisage being against how something is measured. In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose from two well known systems in the UK (yes - I know that's going to invoke the 'mess' thing!)." Yes...it does invoke the "mess" thing, because that's what our system is in...certainly in regard to weights & measures because of previous governments lacking a backbone and failing to introduce a coherent system of metric measurement across the board. By the way, in regards to weights & measures in business, there is NO choice. All are bound by W&M legislation, whether the system is metric OR imperial. "In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose from two well known systems in the UK" I don't...I find it a complete pain, actually. It is, of course, a free country (allegedly) and people are free to use what weights & measures they like but, as I said earlier, businesses and local authorities can't....they are bound by legislation, making your notion of choice a misnomer. "Obviously if I am denied the choice then I must use whatever someone else has has decided is 'best for me'. That's a position that - in the main - I wholly dislike." OK....don't pay your taxes; don't wear a seat belt in your car; openly smoke in a pub; park on double yellow lines! My point is, there is a welter of legislation that denies us supposed "free choice". Weights & measures legislation is there to prevent the traders "free choice" of ripping me off blind! "So I guess I am pro-imperial, pro-choice and pro-metric in that order of personal importance." Well, we largely do not have any choice in what currency we spend in the UK, but I doubt it bothers anybody. If the UK government stuck to its guns and introduced metrication across the board, NO exceptions, in a years time, I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who actually gives a damn. Most of this "patriotic" wish to keep hold of our "historic" weights & measures is largely bunkum, quite frankly. How many people are aware of rods, chains and pecks? How many know how many yards in a mile or even ounces in a pound? Not that many! Choice in things that actually matter, Steve. I hardly think feet & inches or pounds & ounces matter all that much. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Humphreys To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:49 PM Subject: [USMA:46856] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred Stephen, you don't have to be 'anti' the opposite to what you are 'pro-' to, if that makes sense. In fact that position (IMHO) is more honourable, realistic and mature. And it makes the argument less personal - again all IMHO. I have my preferences but I'm definitely not anti-metric. I find it difficult to envisage being against how something is measured. In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose from two well known systems in the UK (yes - I know that's going to invoke the 'mess' thing!). I choose imperial or metric depending on the job or situation in question. I would never use fractions of inches (perhaps except half) and instead use whole millimetres which to me is preferable. That particular choice is pro-metric. It's not anti-Imperial, I simply think there's a better way in that instance. Obviously if I am denied the choice then I must use whatever someone else has has decided is 'best for me'. That's a position that - in the main - I wholly dislike. The obvious reply by yourself, Stephen, is something like 'come off it - you're anti-metric' or something similar to that. Of course you're free to have your opinion but it's an odd position to take to claim you would know my opinion despite what I truthfully say. I hope you don't do this though. So I guess I am pro-imperial, pro-choice and pro-metric in that order of personal importance. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:46841] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:57:32 +0000 "As a footnote - I always think you should concentrate on trade reasons for going metric. With roadsigns and the like it looks more 'anti-imperial' than 'pro-metric' and many people will just see it as some people's personal beef being played out at a national level - if that makes any sense. Sort of "I hate those mile signs - make them say all 'k' & 'm' on them" versus "we've lost an order because the customer required metric - make them show metric". That sort of thing." But its entirely OK to be 'anti-metric'? Also, isn't being 'anti-imperial' to a large extent the main purpose of this discussion board, ie, to promote the usage of metric instead? ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Humphreys To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: [USMA:46827] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred As a footnote - I always think you should concentrate on trade reasons for going metric. With roadsigns and the like it looks more 'anti-imperial' than 'pro-metric' and many people will just see it as some people's personal beef being played out at a national level - if that makes any sense. Sort of "I hate those mile signs - make them say all 'k' & 'm' on them" versus "we've lost an order because the customer required metric - make them show metric". That sort of thing. However I will always say that you can usually tell how metric a country is by what's on their road/public signs (ie it's part of the language) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:19:44 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:46824] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred To: [email protected] Gridlock works! I am happy, but I also realize it is insignificant in the bigger picture. Even having or not having metric signage defined in the MUTCD is insignificant in the absence of a time-bounded plan to actually GO metric. Congress destroyed the plan and legislated against any new plan circa 1995, with regards to roads. From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 6:23:40 AM Subject: [USMA:46823] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred I suspect you're quite happy about that - I would have thought ;-) Despite my normal position regarding this subject I actually feel happy for you on this occassion! Congrats! Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:20:05 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: [USMA:46815] Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona) deferred To: [email protected] Due to the lack of a plan, there is no plan. Since they couldn't decide exactly how to do it, they are not going to do it at all. Metric sign replacement on I-19 has been indefinitiely postponed, and the funds committed to another project. http://www.azstarnet.com/news/local/article_d7dec8f6-26f5-11df-b567-001cc4c03286.html Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. 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