I think there is some validity in what has been said. I can tell you that I actively found this group because of Unix (I was really looking for a Linux group but Unix is close enough). I just don't want to see it lose that tie in as I rather enjoy the random Unix related items that occasionally hit my inbox. However, maybe VOSE - Vermont Open Source Enthusiasts would be a more appropriate title.
Of course renaming the group and picking an appropriate name has challenges. Open source != FOSS. Unix isn't necessarily FOSS/OS either. And while some of you are the die-hard everything should be FOSS types, not every subscriber here believes that everything should be FOSS. If people did decide to refocus VAGUE, my recommendation would be to take Josh's suggestion for picking a true superset or you may alienate some subscribers. I think settling on open source as a half way point between focusing on FOSS and Unix might be worth considering but maybe the group at large has more ideas. -- Brett Johnson simpleroute | 1690 Williston Road | South Burlington, VT 05401 tel: 802-578-3983 | email: [email protected] | web: simpleroute.com On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Josh Sled <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Matthew Weier O'Phinney" <[email protected]> writes: > > What about thinking of it in terms of "the unix way" -- which focuses > > on discrete tools, piped together to create complex or new systems? > > That almost perfectly describes what you discuss above -- and still > > keeps the "u" in vague. > > Well sure, it's a good design philosophy. And one of which I'm > supportive, of course. :) > > But please don't miss my point: I'm not saying "reject unix", I'm saying > "embrace interesting (potentially non-unix) technology". > > ("VermonT Area Group of the-Unix-way Enthusiasts" is pretty horrible, > you have to admit. ;) > > > Brett Johnson <[email protected]> writes: > > You can't possibly be enthused about Unix without FOSS, BSD, Linux, Mac, > > etc. These have played a large role in the history of Unix and it's > > derivatives. Furthermore, I > > think when one says Unix most people don't think solely of the traditional > > HP-UX, Solaris and AIX Unix flavors. Maybe I'm alone (or maybe I'll have > > the older members > > swinging at me with bottles defending the reality they grew up with), but > > to me the term Unix also includes its offshoots, clones and related > > software (those that follow > > the principles of Unix). There may be differences between being at an > > HP-UX terminal and a CentOS terminal, but either way they both largely hold > > true to many of the Unix > > principles and are functionally very similar. > > > > I think the term Unix is still relevant. My two cents anyway... > > Marc Farnum Rendino <[email protected]> writes: > > "UNIX" is not just a specific product, but a way of life - and it begat > > OSS, Linux, Mac OS X, etc. > > > > It's a living, changing ecosystem and there's nothing wrong with continuing > > to nod to the founders. :) > > As I mentioned, VAGUE has expanded in exactly this way. > > I think an explicit focus on FOSS is a core part of VAGUE, and/or > whatever entity I'm suggesting. > > But I propose we go further, still … in some undefined way. > > I usually subscribe more to the Bill Hicks school of marketing, but I do > know this: no one cares to seek out a "unix enthusiasts" group, even if > they want to do things in the unix tradition, and especially if they > don't know that, yet. :) > > > Tony Harris <[email protected]> writes: > > > I would suggest that changing the focus of the group from Unix (or better: > > *nix) enthusiasts to essentially technology enthusiasts would produce a > > totally different group > > than what we have. I don't often make VAGUE meetings, I confess, but I > > have tended to see the group as one that is focused on > > Linux/Unix/BSD/etc.-based FOSS, including a > > wide range of topics from system administration, programming, and user > > standpoints. I think there's a real need for having such a group, and I > > feel it would be a shame if > > VAGUE became so vaguely defined, so to speak, that it lost its focus on > > FOSS advocacy. Perhaps if there's enough desire for such a wider group, it > > might be worth starting > > another one, and letting VAGUE stay with the more *nix/FOSS hacker focus. > > Rubin Bennett <[email protected]> writes: > > > I share the opinion that we should not lose focus - there are plenty of > > other groups out there. > > Besides, I always thought VAGUE meant Vermont Area Group of Unix-like > > (ish?) Enthusiasts! > > > > However, if we as a group feel like we aren't vibrant enough (thus the > > idea of a moniker change), then I would suggest getting our collective > > arses in gear and breathe some life into the organization we've got :) > > > I agree that it would be a different group of people; I think the change > in focus would allow for a larger, better group. A superset of VAGUE. A > rising tide lifts all boats, and having more regular meetings over a > wider set of topics, many of which are "VAGUE-focused" would lead to > more VAGUE meetings than we've been able to sustain. Said another way: > would you rather have a group that had good content every month, 6 of > which were "unixy", or a VAGUE that meets on and off maybe for 6 months > of the year, and with only 3 presentations? > > > A good example is http://twitter.com/DanBowles/status/24380896554 . > Would someone start something as narrow as a jquery user's group > (something I would imagine destined for failure in the sparse hills of > Vermont) if there was a friendly pan-technology interest group to talk > about it within? The Microsoft/.NET ecosystem is large enough to be > self-sustaining, and I don't know how the PHP guys do it, but they seem > vibrant. :) > > What about "unix enthusiasts" would draw in a web developer who develops > on a Mac and deploys to Google App Engine? Or a Java developer on > Windows (who's operational peer might deploy on Linux, but that's not > her concern)? Or someone setting up MySQL on their office Windows > server? Or someone making HTML5+WebGL+js apps that run on Android > tablets? Or people doing hardware hacking on Arduino boards? Or people > building web-services for open street map/GIS data? > > (Those last two examples being two of the most-successful VAGUE meetings > of the last couple of years, btw. :) > > If these sorts of meeting started happening under the VAGUE moniker, > would people complain? I don't think so, as some already did. But it > does invite the question about the scope of a "unix enthusiasts" group > … and here we are. :) > > Of course the unix tradition is important. Technologies with liberal, > foss licenses. Projects that are open rather than closed. That value > privacy and user autonomy. That respect the creator/user's ownership of > their data, instead of the site's ownership of their data. All those > "unix tradition" things, that we must struggle to promote, but without > the (frankly, dying) attachment to "unix". > > I seek to frame it in a way that is both broader than VAGUE, but still > focused concisely and concretely. One where all the (copious! ;) VAGUE > mailing list traffic would not be out of place, and "VAGUE" meetings > would still be held. But that was also perhaps more discoverable to and > inclusive of people of various backgrounds to participate, leading to a > more self-sustainable community. > > > > I'll stand up and offer to host a November meeting at rbTech if there's > > interest in a field trip out to EastMont. We could demo our *really > > damn cool* phone system (the non-FOSS Digium SwitchVOX SMB with the FOSS > > Asterisk as the base), and/ or talk about our FOSS WANBalancer multi-WAN > > firewall system that we build (and developed) here. > > Thank you for offering. We need more like this, of presentations, > content, venues, &c. > > -- > ...jsled > http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo $...@${b}
