ROFL... Well, I lived OFF grid for a while.. Till I came up with the power bill 
ROFL... And yeah, I think Nutria have even bigger teeth than a beaver, Chuck


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Don Ordes 
  To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled


  Chuck...them's called 'hillbillies'...  lol

  In my old neck of the swamp, they's called coon-asses. (Cajuns)

  I snagged & caught a nutria once with a fly.  Does that count?
  Madder than a ticked off muskrat, he was.

  DonO


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Chuck Alexander 
    To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
    Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:33 PM
    Subject: Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled


    Well, speaking about pollution, I hear they "step in the exhaust" all too 
often LOL... seriously, I  wondered about how it would be myself. I have a 
group I started years ago Called "Simple Living in the Computer Age" and we 
have members there that life totally "off grid" and they seem to manage just 
fine. I think it's all about what you are used to, Chuck


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Don Ordes 
      To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
      Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:15 PM
      Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled


      I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy 
community, like the Amish.
      Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ?

      I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and 
my heated seat, and 75mph,
      and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop 
in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and...
      DonO
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Chuck Alexander 
        To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
        Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...


        Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT 
in "our communities", Chuck


          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Don Ordes 
          To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
          Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM
          Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...


          Neville, I understand totally.  This is not a political debate, but a 
reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age.  As long 
as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need 
sources of power.  This is what it's all about.  No one, including me, wants to 
see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the 
unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates 
and Wall St.  We all want it, but 'over there, not here'.

          That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels 
and sources of power.  So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are 
just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and 
horizons.  They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, 
etc., and all this messes with the enviornment.

          No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down.  Coal companies fund 
those efforts.
          No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them.  
Obvious reasons, as Neville stated.
          No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with 
proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be.  (But electric cars 
will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.)
          Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from 
meaningful contributions (like windmills).
          Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. 
 Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually 
require human sacrifice. (lol)
          Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the 
environment.
          Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come 
under fire for corruption and inefficiency.
          Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big 
problems, not yet anyway.
          Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical.
          Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than 
all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and 
expensive to get to the surface.  We don't even have the technology yet to get 
it, but some proposals are out there.  I say slurry- we'll see.
          If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is 
decades from reality.
          Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but 
that has it's risks, too.  Do you want to live downwind of one?
          Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country 
because of smoke pollution.

          So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing 
and recreating areas?  Demand and control.  We demand and they control.  'We' 
are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the 
providers).  Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the 
provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land.  Even if one is an energy 
investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done.  So a portion of every 
dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and 
then line the pockets of rich people & politicians, and then get you where you 
want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers.  I don't have to explain how 
powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars.  Wow, 
all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg.  Why didn't they do that 20/30 years 
ago?  Shall I name all the players, your governments included?  So we decided 
to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the 
burden to our children).  But at least they not gathering energy on our 
favorite plot of land.

          I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the 
same thing to operators.  And I believe that fines do no good with the 
beaucrats in bed with the energy companies.  But every dollar we spend on fuel 
of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the 
responsibility on us for the problems we face.  And 'do it there, not here' is 
not a solution.  'There' is always somebody else's 'here'.

          So unless we want to ride bicycles to our fishing holes, we're all 
responsible for the big ol nasty energy picture, and are at the mercy of those 
who have the means to provide mass consumption energy.  In populated countries 
where there are no cars, the pollution comes from burning wood for heat and 
cooking- if there is any left to burn.  There, charcoal makers are the industry 
of need, to cut down on city smoke, and they, in turn, cut down the forests, 
which pollutes the rivers, which takes away from their fishing for a living....

          "Anguish of nations, not knowing the way out."

          Don



            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Neville Gosling 
            To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com 
            Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:41 AM
            Subject: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM)


            And now for the fishing content:-


            I and many other residents of Britsh Columbia (BC) are vehemently 
opposed to coalbed methane extraction. The Government and Industry are only 
interested in the almighty $ and will gladly destroy a pristine part of BC in 
the process. This tends to happen around some of the best fly fishing rivers in 
 the province.  CBM poses a risk to: -

            a.. Water sources contaminated by chemicals used during the 
extraction process, and by the unanticipated underground migration of methane. 
            a.. Farmers' fields rendered useless by huge volumes of polluting 
water, produced during the extraction process. 
            a.. Rural landscapes transformed into networks of roads, pipelines, 
flaring gas wells and compressor stations whose ceaseless hum has been compared 
to that of a large tractor. 
            a.. Plummeting values of adjacent real estate. 
            a.. Conservative, multi-generation farmers turned activists after 
the promise of land rental fees is overshadowed by ballooning industrial 
development rolling unchecked over private land.

            The Elk River near Fernie, BC and the Morice/Bulkley River near 
Telkwa. Please refer to the following URLs.


            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz19W7e1eGs


            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZ8CFgRR5U


            http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/11/14/CBM/

             
            Sorry DonO but CBM is not wanted here.

            Neville (Nev) Gosling
            Greater Vancouver,
            B.C. Canada




            -- 
            You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB 
Mail" group.
             
            To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
            To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
            For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
             
            VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com

          -- 
          You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB 
Mail" group.
           
          To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
          To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
          For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
           
          VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com 


----------------------------------------------------------------------



          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
          Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 
05/19/10 01:26:00


        -- 
        You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" 
group.
         
        To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
        To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
        For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
         
        VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com

      -- 
      You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" 
group.
       
      To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
      To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
      For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
       
      VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------



      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 
01:26:00


    -- 
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" 
group.
     
    To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
    For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
     
    VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com

  -- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group.
   
  To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
  For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en
   
  VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 
01:26:00

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group.

To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en

VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com

Reply via email to