Don O: See my comments below:- Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada
_____ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: June 26, 2010 11:50 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY My two cents: His comment doesn't make any sense. 1. He says "during the time period (past two decades) we have a proliferation in new tying materials...". This comment refers to materials 2. But then he says "Truth to be told there seems to be little that is truly new in the fly tying world." Whereas this comment refers to fly design or patterns. See below for an example of tying a czech nymph by Davie McPhail. He virtually does your rope dub technique but his attachment of the dubbing to the hook is different to yours in that he does not anchor it first before turning the dubbing araound the thread with his fingers....But he does hold the bobbin and twist the dubbing around the thread in the same manner as DO. So which is it? Since there are many new materials, like foam and synthetics, there must also be new techniques for applying these to hooks. There are new books, DVDs, PATTERNS, AND techniques. Foam patterns are very productive, and it would be a stretch to say a foam hopper is a "recycled variation or modification using new materials on an old, forgotten fly." That's rediculous. Braided body materials have sparked hundreds of new patterns. I know tiers who feel this way. They never create anything new, so they refuse to see anything anyone else does as new. They find the closest thing to compare it to, and call it a variation of that. It becomes a matter of limited perspective rather than an actual fact. I feel that I am a creative and innovative tier, but I rely on the biggest names in the business for 2nd-hand verification of that. I, on the other hand, am continually amazed by the new things great tiers dream up. The level of artistry in realistic tying right now is incredible. Check Paul Whillock's site. YES, there are many times when a tier THINKS he has a new fly, pattern, technique, or material, and then can be shown something that makes his an identical - even if not intentional. The fly-tying industry right now is so huge that one cannot research all of the patterns in the world before claiming something is 'new'. In many cases patterns resemble well-known originals many decades old. Others resemble later patterns that other tiers have published that are not very well known. The drive right now is to call everything you tie by your name. Everyone wants their name on the books. Did 'Dave's Hopper' start all this? I can't remember too many flies earlier that had the tier's name. This is where the problems start. Who developed the coachman? Are you sure? When did it become a royal coachman, a leadwing coachman, a fanwing coachman, a then a (whoops) Royal Wulff? If the original tier wrapped a body in peacock, is every peacock fly a copy or variation of that fly? If I sub. peacock ice dub for peacock, is that still only a peacock variation? What if I use black ice dub. Is that just a variation now, or is it a black gnat? Color changed it? Why not the synthetic as a changer? What about a Royal Wulff with poly wings? Is that still a Royal Wulff, since Lee only made a change from white feather fanwings to white calf-tail to call it a Royal Wulff? Can I call my Winger Adams a 'Don's Adams' like Lee Wulff changed the Royal Fanwing Coachman by just changing the wing material? (Maybe there was a tier named Royal Fanwing. No Buggs, there wasn't. And nooo, we can't call a green Adams a Don's Adams-apple!) I have had many 'amused' self-appointed masters approach my tying table tell me that there's nothing new, especially in techniques. And them I rope-dub them a 20-second fly and change their minds. And then I show them the 'Baits Hotel', and they learn what new thinking is all about. Maybe some day someone will show and prove to me that the rope-dub technique has been used by others. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC2aO5X0IJA> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC2aO5X0IJA I checked for 8 years and no one could produce anything. I will then humbly admit that we share the same technique. (It is not Polly's technique, which some mistakenly apply to it- but I have his book, and it's not the same.) I was definitely not taught it and did not read about it, and no one else has seen or read about it either, and no patterns exist that I have been able to find. So if someone has thought of it, they didn't extend it into all of the sub-techniques either. So yes, it does sometimes happen that a fly pattern or technique has ben done before. But if one believes that NO pattern or technique is new, then that person needs to get (his head) out and see a little more. Off my soapbox... DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy D. <mailto:ray...@earthlink.net> Moore To: Virtual Fly Box <mailto:vfb-mail@googlegroups.com> ; Fly Fishing World <mailto:flyfishingwo...@yahoogroups.com> ; Hill oountry Fly <mailto:hillcountryflyfish...@yahoogroups.com> Fishers Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY "During the past two decades we have seen an explosion in the popularity of fly fishing. Thousands of new fly fishermen, and women, have embraced the sport and taken up fly tying as a part of it. During this same period we have had a proliferation in new tying materials; and new magazine abound espousing and rehashing the many nuances of tying. After fifty plus years of fly tying, I am always amused by tyers who purport to have discovered a brand new technique. Truth to be told there seems to be little hat is truly new in the fly tying world. Claims of hot new patterns consistently appear that are nothing more than recycled variations or modifications using new materials on an old, forgotten fly." ( AIN'T IT THE TRUTH ! I've run into that a few times when I tho't I'd invented a new fly. "Tying Flies The Paraloop Way" Ian Moutter **************** ><((((((((º> ***************************************** JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing & Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish & Game Magazine, VFB & FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html ***************** <º))))))))>< *************************************** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. 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